Kinetic Weapons

[ghosty]

Thinking about weaponry for the Terran Union "Starfleet". Given that they keep a special place in their hearts for Replicators, I was thinking that they would have moved away from energy based weaponry for kinetic weaponry which can harm Replicators.

I was thinking of gauss-based pistols and rifles as personal weaponry but question is are guass weapons energy or kinetic weapon as the velocity of the projectile as it leaves the gun is so high that its practically energy?

[Phantom]

Originally posted by ghosty
Thinking about weaponry for the Terran Union "Starfleet". Given that they keep a special place in their hearts for Replicators, I was thinking that they would have moved away from energy based weaponry for kinetic weaponry which can harm Replicators.

I was thinking of gauss-based pistols and rifles as personal weaponry but question is are guass weapons energy or kinetic weapon as the velocity of the projectile as it leaves the gun is so high that its practically energy?

Hello Andromeda.

Why would E Weapons be any less useful against them?

[Owen E Oulton]

Second answer first - Replicators eat energy beams like candy. Firing a phaser at 'em would be like firing Duracells at the Energiser Bunny.

First answer last - Gauss weapons are definitely kinetic weapons. A high-velocity small-calibre (but high-density and with a high lenght/width ratio) "needle" fired from can have an extremely high kinetic energy, but it's still a physical impact. Most theoretical plasma weapons would use a similar set of magnetic coils to propel their plasma bolt, but a gauss weapons specifically is firing a solid projectile.

[AslanC]

What about the Pulse Pistols from Babylon 5? Didn't they have something to do with Gravity?

[JALU3]

well . . . as with the Borg . . . if it aint energy based . . . they can't stop it. I'm sure that the schematics for the TR-114s are floating around somewhere still. That would be a good start.

The movement to gauss weapons or rail type weapons wouldn't be to difficult either as I am sure they were developed will into the past. Pre-Federation Terran Technology?

Either way . . . I always liked the idea of carrying around an old M14 in ST. Esp. when no one is use to seeing someone get shot, and the mess that occurs due to a well placed shot.

I mean high powered phasers or energy weapons disintigrate the target . . . thus leaving a 'clean' kill when considered to an abdoman shot with a 7.62 NATO round.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by AslanC
What about the Pulse Pistols from Babylon 5? Didn't they have something to do with Gravity?

OOpps, yeah forgot about them being able to absorb energy, been a while since I saw the ep.

As to the PPGs from B5, they are designed to do damage to living targets, and to be safe around important in animate objects (like Dome out walls, and outer bulkheads of ships and stations.) If you have access, this effect can be seen in any PPG fight in the series. People have nice holes burned in them, and impacts on stuff around them, usually, is unaffected. Now, I am talking industrial/military strength stuff here...not your average computer monitor or something like that.

[Ergi]

Originally posted by AslanC
What about the Pulse Pistols from Babylon 5? Didn't they have something to do with Gravity?

I don't know very much about gauss weapons, but I might be able to clear this thing up. Some time ago I have downloaded a document dealing with all kinds of technology seen in B5. Here is the entry for the PPG:

Earthforce's primary hand held weapon is the Auricon EF-7 PPG pistol. The term PPG stands for "Phased Plaser Gun." These weapons fire bolts of charged helium plasma, which is contained in a magnetic field. "Caps", are highly condensed helium storage units and a nuclear battery in the grip supply energy to the weapon. Helium is ionized by a laser burst then a strong electrical discharge forces the plasma out of the weapon at high speeds. PPG's can easily burn through organic tissue, bone and metal at higher energy levels.

[Owen E Oulton]

"Phased Plaser Gun."

Spelling correction: Phased PLASMA Gun. A plasma weapon, whether a B5 PPG or a Traveller PGMP, would not do a great deal of damage against a Replicator, being mostly energy with not that much (relatively speaking) in the way of kinetic energy.

[ghosty]

Thanks for the input fellas.

Now I just have to go work out the stats for the weapons. I'm thinking that damage can be controlled (ie. limited) by "reducing" the power of the gauss coils, thus reducing the muzzle velocity of the bullet. Is that remotely possible?

[tmutant]

Originally posted by ghosty
Thanks for the input fellas.

Now I just have to go work out the stats for the weapons. I'm thinking that damage can be controlled (ie. limited) by "reducing" the power of the gauss coils, thus reducing the muzzle velocity of the bullet. Is that remotely possible?

It could be controlled by setting the number of coils that charge and 'fire'. Each coil adds velocity as the projectile passes through. If you have 10 coils, for example, you could get 10% to 100% velocity. Remember energy goes up as the square of the velocity.

I saw a picture in a physics text of the effect of a 1 gm lexan projectile (coated with tin to allow the magnetic driver coils to effect it). It hit an aluminum block and made a crater 8 cm deep and about 15 across. Definite shock and trauma on tissue.

[Ergi]

Originally posted by tmutant
It could be controlled by setting the number of coils that charge and 'fire'. Each coil adds velocity as the projectile passes through. If you have 10 coils, for example, you could get 10% to 100% velocity. Remember energy goes up as the square of the velocity.

I saw a picture in a physics text of the effect of a 1 gm lexan projectile (coated with tin to allow the magnetic driver coils to effect it). It hit an aluminum block and made a crater 8 cm deep and about 15 across. Definite shock and trauma on tissue.

I don't think it would be that simple. I have done some reading lately on the damaging effects of projectiles and therefore believe that, considering the velocities we are talking about here, the actual speed will have no influence on damage. I am a little bit unsure about this, but I think one problem of too fast rounds is that they can pass through tissue without transfering much of their kinetic energy to the tissue, i.e. doing less damage.

And one thing you shouldn't forget is recoil. It increases to the same degree as does the amount of total kinetic energy. Federation super science certainly could handle this, but, depending on the time of the setting, such high technology could seem inappropriate.

[Robbert Raets]

Maybe you should review the 'high speed ravioli' physics thread

[tmutant]

Originally posted by Ergi
I don't think it would be that simple. I have done some reading lately on the damaging effects of projectiles and therefore believe that, considering the velocities we are talking about here, the actual speed will have no influence on damage. I am a little bit unsure about this, but I think one problem of too fast rounds is that they can pass through tissue without transfering much of their kinetic energy to the tissue, i.e. doing less damage.

And one thing you shouldn't forget is recoil. It increases to the same degree as does the amount of total kinetic energy. Federation super science certainly could handle this, but, depending on the time of the setting, such high technology could seem inappropriate.

Actually, given the velocities of Gauss weapons, the projectile vaporizes on impact, transfering kinetic energy totally. Penetration is in the form of shockwaves propagated by the material of the target.

[Ergi]

Originally posted by tmutant
Actually, given the velocities of Gauss weapons, the projectile vaporizes on impact, transfering kinetic energy totally. Penetration is in the form of shockwaves propagated by the material of the target.

the projectile vaporizes on impact

This may be the case for hard targets, but I don't believe that any projectile vaporizing on impact when hitting a soft target will cause very much damage besides a bruise (if you are lucky) or burns.

transfering kinetic energy totally

I think, that if the slug vaporizes on impact at least some kinetic energy has to be transformed to thermal energy.

[qerlin]

Whew...there's a point where overanalysing something becomes counterproductive guys. Guass weapons fire a projectile magnetically; there's not going to be appreciable recoil. The projectile's unlikely to move a relativistic speeds; the energy requirements would get prohibitive. Most railgun research aims at hypersonic speeds -- the damage could be very high if the projectile is some sort of hollow-point bullet-like object. If it's a BB-like projectile, boom! it'll go through the object and probably do a nice bit of hydrostatic shock, but keep toddlin' down range. If you want relativistic speeds, you can still call it a projectile...it should have gained mass, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Simple answer: if you want it to act like a projectile in the game, say it act's like a projectile. Pick a damage. It's science-fiction, after all...