Why doesn't the Ring make Sauron invisible?

[ben hur]

Sorry, this thought just sprang to mind... why isn't Sauron invisible while wearing the One Ring?

At least in the movie he definitely isn't, and in the books I would assume he isn't, since Isildur cuts his finger off.

Is it that his amazing power can't be concealed? Or does he want to show himself so as to frighten his opponents the more?

If anyone knows for sure, please tell, and if you don't know, I'd love to hear comments on why you think this is.

[Manveru]

Well, for one thing, he made it, it's his ring, I imagine he can do things with it that no one else can. I also suspect that someone on the scale of Galadriel, Elrond, or Gandalf would also not become Invisible, unless they wanted to.

Why? Because someone at that level of power who claims the ring can, according to the text, 'wrest' control of it, claim it, and if they succeeded, they could throw down Sauron with the power lent to them by the Ring (which apparently amplifies their own innate power). So this implies that one who is powerful can direct the Ring in a fashion, and make it work to their ends (at first, but ultimately to the Ring's own ends).

Also, what exactly is this 'Invisibility' power? It's actually a shifting into the Spirit world/'plane' by the bearer, not something having to do with the physics of light a la "The Invisible Man" or even like the same named power in D&D.

So, one who weilds the Ring, and has not already 'claimed' it through a contest of Wills, gets popped into the Spirit 'plane' where, gee, it's harder for 'ordinary' folk to see them (unless they can somehow see into the Spirit World) but it's just a wee bit easier for some of the more powerful servants of the Enemy to find the bearer, hmm ....

For what it's worth, I also think that, much like Tom Bombadil, particularily 'Wise' and powerful folk on the scale of Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf (and probably Saruman) to 'see' one who is within the Spirit 'plane', both because of their stature, and the fact that they weild Rings of their own. I would also think that one such as Glorfindel (who has lived in Valinor and has power over much that is both 'seen and unseen') would probably have a decent chance of seeing one who is 'Invisible' due to the fact of being swept into the Spirit 'plane', especially if that person was weak and had not 'claimed' the Ring for their own.

HTH,

Manveru

[oops1]

How's this for a twist? Sauron is never seen during the Trilogy, as he is still gathering strength from loosing his form at the end of the Second Age. Could he actually need the Ring to assume a visible(or physical) form? The armies of Gondor never did penetrate to Barad-dur.

He did instill it with a considerable amount of his own power during its forging. Just a thought.

[Robbert Raets]

Also, Elves are 'powerful in both worlds'. Frodo sees Glorfindel/Arwen's 'spirit self' when he is near death on the banks of the Isen.

[Chris Landmark]

Originally posted by oops1
How's this for a twist? Sauron is never seen during the Trilogy, as he is still gathering strength from loosing his form at the end of the Second Age. Could he actually need the Ring to assume a visible(or physical) form? The armies of Gondor never did penetrate to Barad-dur.

Not true. Sauron DOES have a physical form at the time of the War of the Ring. We have a witness: Gollum. It's durring the passage of the Dead Marshes (I think) where Frodo is talking about the Last Alliance and how Isildur cut the Ring from Sauron's hand. Gollum makes a remark something like, "Yes, yes, there are only four fingers on the black hand, but they are enough." So obviously Sauron's managed to scrape a body together, whatever the films may say.

As for why Sauron isn't invisible while wearing the Ring, all I can say is this. Sauron poured a lot of his original power into the Ring in order to empower it as a tool for the domination of others. The Ring is Sauron. So he isn't so much wearing it as completed by it.

-Chris Landmark

[Manveru]

That was the film version where Frodo saw Arwen 'on the other side', but it was Glorfindel he saw in the author's story (a Noldo from Valinor), and it was the Bruinen (Loudwater) actually that Frodo was near at the time, not the Isen, many hundreds of miles south.

But I think a case could be made that Elves of great Wisdom and experience may sense or even see into the spirit world. I'd certainly give this ability to any Noldor who has lived in Valinor.

[ben hur]

Yes, that helped a ton Manveru! So dense of me not to think a bit deeper and think "What exactly does being invisible mean?" and understand it's not just 'invisible' but 'in the twilight world', which makes it totally make sense.

Also, I remember some quote from Gandalf (I think it was him, somebody wise who knows about that stuff) who said something like, although Frodo could only pretty much use the Ring to 'become invisible', others could manipulate it to their will and command wild power, and of course Sauron himself was the best at this, since a large part of him was transmitted into the Ring when it was forged.

Again, thanks Manveru for that very insightful reply, and thanks everyone else too.