Fumbles

[JonA]

My players have expressed a concern at the lack of fumble rules in CODA. Having a double six roll give you a bonus of an additional die is fine but it should also work the other way.

In fact CODA is the first system we've ever come across where there are no Fumble rules (and we've got some 36 odd systems on our shelves).

As an inhouse rule we've decided that if a player rolls a double 1 (which is a one in 36 chance - same for a double 6 btw) that they have automatically fumbled whatever they're trying to do.

If they do fumble then they roll a D6 again and compare against the following Fumble table.

1-2 Minor Failure
3-4 Significant Failure
5-6 Catastrophic Failure

The effects are as listed on the skill results table already in the rules.

Double ones do not effect reaction tests or attribute tests, only skill tests. A double one is a double one in this case (including initiative). Mind you we don't use the double six rule on reactions either.

The rule above is pretty much that used in our other main system of Cyberpunk whereby you roll a 1 on any skill test you've fumbled. You then roll a dice again and compare on a fumble table to see how badly you've fumbled (again a 1 is 1 for initiative tests in Cyberpunk).

If nothing it'll stop my group's Helmsman who has 12 in System Ops (Helm), Agi +3 and numerous other bonuses applied from his Professional Abilities rolling a minimum 19 (before bonuses) on all Helm Manoeuvers.

Should also spice things up a bit.

What do you guys think? I think that it fits with the CODA approach. I need to think how a fumble will effect Extended Tests (any suggestions to those who like these rules would be appreciated). The effect on Combined tests are as listed depending on how badly the player fumbled using the above table as guide (-1 for a minor failure etc).

[KillerWhale]

We have a similar house rule, working on the mechanic of the double 6's.

When a double 1's occurrs, the player rerolls one die and subtracts the results to the 2 + skill + attribute modifier.

If the roll is a 6, the player rolls again for as long as he gets 6's, and subtracts them all.

This very often leads to dramatic failures

[C5]

KillerWhale's house rule is the one I had in mind if we feel the need to implement such a rule. I'll wait for a few more games to see if my group feels the need to implement it.

[Phantom]

Gentlemen, when have you ever seen a Critical Fumble in the series? Starfleet are superpeople and never make mistakes, at least not big enough to have that whole "egg on the face" thing goin'.

Yet, again Dec has a tragic sense of "OOPPPSSS!"

Good house rules though.

[David Riggen]

I think.. by looking at the Player's Guide on Pg. 104 under the skills chapter on Table 6.7 there is already a failure chance built into the skills system. Looking at the chart, if a player rolls a certain amount below the target number then he/she fails to a certain degree. Isn't that what you guys are talking about?

[First of Two]

Gentlemen, when have you ever seen a Critical Fumble in the series?

Geordi's instructions to the holodeck in "Elementary, Dear Data?"

Sonya Gomez spilling coffee on Captain Picard as her "first impression?"

Kirk's decision to leave the shields down while approaching the USS Reliant?

[JonA]

Originally posted by David Riggen
I think.. by looking at the Player's Guide on Pg. 104 under the skills chapter on Table 6.7 there is already a failure chance built into the skills system. Looking at the chart, if a player rolls a certain amount below the target number then he/she fails to a certain degree. Isn't that what you guys are talking about?

Not really.

The argument is that with the chances of getting a critical success are higher that getting a critical failure as the rules allow for rolling additional D6 when you rolling a double six. However, there is no penalty for rolling a double one.

CODA is the only system I've read (and I've read a fair few) which has no fumble allocation in rules.

My point is you can't have a well balanced game if the rules allow a greater chance of doing well. By adding in the fumble rules above balances the game out a little more and opens up for more drama.

Example from my last session:

The players were aboard a ship which was close to another ship that had a failing warp core. One of the players, a helmsman, tried to make a Systems Ops roll to jump to warp and get the hell away. He rolled a double one followed by a four on the fumble dice. I let him go to warp but he completely screwed up where they were destined. If he'd rolled a critical failure then I would've had them unable to jump to warp because he screwed up the helm commands and inflicted damage on the ship.

[David Riggen]

Yeah I see ypur point about that, and your rules seem to be a faster and easier calculation wise to determine a instant failure. Maybe to balance the game even farther for you is to only allow the players only a certain amount of bonus D6 dice for double sixes if their skill test results are getting too high.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by JonA

CODA is the only system I've read (and I've read a fair few) which has no fumble allocation in rules.

Legend of the Five Rings doesn't have fumble rules either. It is my persaonal favourite game (next to Ars Magica.)

[aelius]

I have instituted an automatic failure on double ones, but fumbles only occure as per the rules. In other words, if you miss the roll by a lot you will fumble. Double ones simply mean an automatic failure of the roll.
This means that somebody REALLY good will not fail badly unless it is a near impossible task or an opposed task against someone as good (or better) than they are.
This accounts for the rare critical failures on screen, but still means the players can fail. Even if they have rediculous levels of skill.