The Vulcan Nerve Pinch

[7 of 11]

Too powerful? I have a PC that plays a Klingon and his character was sparring my NPC (Vulcan). He's power stat kinda player (Ya know a 1 trick pony, abuses stats kinda) and for fun I allowed him into the game with a create your own package (Never do that for a power junkie player). So he made a powerful brawler and to show him the combat system I had him challenge the Vulcan Security Officer in a sparring contest. He began to Drago my little Rocky for about 4 Combat rounds and so I decided to Nerve pinch him (Hey he was getting very cocking and annoying, you know the player-type). He used up all his actions beating me and went on his natural Defense and I inccured a -5 to my skill (didn't even apply the speciality bonus to for the pinch to be nice) and I got it. Knocked him out with no stamina test. So this player was beating down my little V and suddenly a turn of an event put his big bad Klingon fighter on the ground. His complaint was he was a Klingon and he should get a Stamina reaction (PG says no on Pinch) test. So my question is, does the klingon race get a Stamina Reaction test for a sucessful nerve pinch and is the nerve pinch too powerful (are there examples of species resisting it)? Thank and any input would be swell.

7 of 11
A

[Karg]

I would say no, Look at the show. The VNP is Very powerfull, IIRC every time Spock connected with somebody, They went down!

[Phantom]

As I recall the only benefit a Klingon gets when dealing with the VNP is that he is out for only 5 mins, whereas anyone else is KO'd for 15.

[Owen E Oulton]

No mercy. Further, power junkies when allowed to make their own packages up always stint on non-combat skills - use this ruthlessly against him. They rely on the kindness of GMs, which is kinda naive when you think of it, since any GM worth his salt has none. Don't let him talk you into bending the rules for him - that's the way these sorts generally work.

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by Phantom
As I recall the only benefit a Klingon gets when dealing with the VNP is that he is out for only 5 mins, whereas anyone else is KO'd for 15.

Just because something struts and blusters (a Klingon) doesn't mean it is stronger. Just because something is quiet and unobtrusive (a Vulcan) doesn't mean it is weaker.

For this question, there's two things to consider:

1) Was there ever an instance in on-screen Trek where a Vulcan used a Nerve Pinch on a Klingon ? If not, then the question can be left to game balance and the individual tastes of the game master. I, myself, would keep the nerve pinch powerful because:

2) I've forgotten which one it was, but there was an original series novel in which "man of 1000 hobbies" Mr. Sulu had taken up a particularly brutal form of Vulcan martial arts that was developed before the time of Surak. It focused on the striking of nerve centers to incapacitate an opponent with blinding pain or cause death by disruption of neurological function. (Much like the Chinese Dim Mak.)

The novel implied that the Nerve Pinch was either a remnant or a part of a greater martial art that fell out of favor when Surak's teachings took hold. The Nerve Pinch remained because it had still had usefulness in the hands of a pre-dominantly non-agressionist and pacifist culture. It was dignified, required less effort than full melee (if you could surprise your opponent), and, above all, did no harm to one's enemy.

Still, Vulcan's miltant and martial past was equal or greater than that of Earth or Qo'Nos, and would have developed warriors of equal knowledge and ability. Such a view of pre-Surak Vulcan culture is corroborated by Trek canon and LUG / Decipher's RPG history.

Vulcans can be the equal of Klingon warriors when they choose to be. Their non-agressionist views come from the mind, not the inability of body.

So, I would keep the Vulcan Nerve Pinch powerful because of that. (Besides, despite his even demeanor, I always thought Tuvok was a man to be feared.)

[Evil Kirk]

I concur with everyone else. The Vulcan Nerve pinch has never, ever failed on screen to my knowledge when performed by a Vulcan.

I don't know if it's unbalancing, but that's definately how its meant to be. "Balance" (at least in the context of how roleplayers define it) isn't much of an issue when you're only trying to write a compelling story.

-Evil Kirk

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Ezri's Toy


1) Was there ever an instance in on-screen Trek where a Vulcan used a Nerve Pinch on a Klingon ?

To my knowledge there was one occurance of Spock KO'ing a Klingon with the VNP. In the ep "Errand of Mercy" Kirk captures a Klingon, Kor's second IIRC, and questions him. Done, he hands the captive over to Spock, who knocks the man out with the NVP. I think that is the only time when the move was done on a Klingon.

[Enrious]

In game terms, wouldn't the effect of the VNP be reduced by half for a Klingon? As per the writeup on them which states they're stunned for half as long as other races?


Mind you, this is not addressing the fact of whether they could be stunned or not, I'll leave that to everyone else.

I'm just thinking that if it were successful, there's already a game rule which reflects that Klingons are less vulnerable to the effects.

[7 of 11]

Whoa! Thanks all for the fast response. So basically squash the power hungry Klingon player for thinking he can mess with a VNPing NPC. Got ya! Thanks for the tip Phantom about the 15 mins for Humans and 5 mins for Klingons! Forgot about that. Everyone else is leaning, no running to the side of "VNP rules all" and I agree. But to be fair I wanted an outside option. Owen, where can I "learn the ways" of being a ruthless GM? I need to be more like you Mister! And yes he's not too bright because he doesn't have anything in Tactics or Command (Only Persuase and Unarmed to talk and fist fight his way out of anything) and as the 1st officer he may need it (since the Captain may die here shortly). Enrious, are you saying to possibly increase the TN score to land the hit or instead of 2d6 it's 1d6? I could agree with the 1d6 because your statement is true as far as I can tell. Thanks again everyone for the rapid response and advice!

7 of 11
A

[Enrious]

I'm saying that based on the writeup of Klingons (page 41 of the PG), I'd rule that the time spent stunned should be half of the normal duration.

"When hit with a weapon's stun effect, divide the effect's duration in half (rounding down) to a minimum of one."

While it mentions being affected by a weapon, I'd also argue that it's for virtually any time they're stunned, such as from the VNP or a console exploding (during ship combat).

So roll 2d6 and divide by 2 and round down or roll 1d6, in my opinion.


Naturally, if you're using ICON rules, this doesn't apply.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Enrious
I'm saying that based on the writeup of Klingons (page 41 of the PG), I'd rule that the time spent stunned should be half of the normal duration.

"When hit with a weapon's stun effect, divide the effect's duration in half (rounding down) to a minimum of one."

While it mentions being affected by a weapon, I'd also argue that it's for virtually any time they're stunned, such as from the VNP or a console exploding (during ship combat).

So roll 2d6 and divide by 2 and round down or roll 1d6, in my opinion.


Naturally, if you're using ICON rules, this doesn't apply.

Ahh, my idea of the 15 min for humans and 5 for klingons is based on info shown on the weapons chart on p 183 of the PG. So, the info on p 41 and p 183 are incompatible, another little hiccup in the rules...Anyone have any idea on what rule is to be used? Someone missed something.

[Enrious]

Originally posted by Phantom
Ahh, my idea of the 15 min for humans and 5 for klingons is based on info shown on the weapons chart on p 183 of the PG. So, the info on p 41 and p 183 are incompatible, another little hiccup in the rules...Anyone have any idea on what rule is to be used? Someone missed something.

I knew you were basing it on something, but couldn't quite place it

This is not addressed in the errata thread.

I guess it boils down to the fact the rules state or imply that a Klingon is stunned for 1/2 the time as other races (humans being the baseline) or they're stunned for 1/3 the time as other races (humans being the baseline).

So the question really is, "How much do you like Klingons?"

[Evil Kirk]

and as the 1st officer he may need it (since the Captain may die here shortly).

How'd he get to be first officer without any levels of command or tactics skills? Attrition?

[Tobian]

Well if he was the first officer of a Klingon ship - probably by beating up everyone else - which fits -

I am not sure if it's really a mistake that they have said 15 minutes for everyone else and 5 minutes for a Klingon. It's just a special rule for it in that occasion.

I also pretty much agree with Owen on the being hard to players too - my group are pretty damn savy and rules guru's - fortunatelly they are not Startrek RPG rules gurus The only down side is it can be a chore making up characters as they scour the creation process for more jewels of power

If you wanted you could always have your players roll stamina reaction tests (as an in house rule) but I would still set the difficulty the same as a heavy stun - so if they succeeded they would still be horribly disabled for several minutes and unlikelly to pose a further threat (to another pinch for example ).

[C5]

Wait... I seem to recall a TOS episode, Assignement : Earth, where Spock Nerve Pinches Gary Seven for at least a full round without effect. Granted, Seven was a rather peculiar Human, not a Klingon, but he resisted it nonetheless. And since Spock kept the grip for the full round, it's hard to believe he failed his Nerve pinch roll (unless he made a very critical failure).

I think I might add a Stamina roll for the Nerve Pinch, but a very high one (20 for instance).