The Vulcan Nerve Pinch

[Tobian]

There are always going to be epsiode specific examples of someone doing something that could not be done in the rules system, because alot of the time this is down to the cinematic effect of the movies. A creature should not be able to ignore a phaser beam, but it has happened several times (and yes there are rules to cover this but it doesn't make much sense )

Gm's always have to come up with things which defy regular abilities to avoid standard patterns. - people who are immune to vulcan nerve pinches, telepathy, phasers etc - so instead of having to rely on your martial abilities you have to reply on your wits and your talking. - Talk them down or go around the problem.

As an example of how you could explain it however; Tholians have an edge which allows them not to go unconscious - so just give him that and explain it away as an advantage his creators gave him for such circumstances, after all he is not a regular human!

[7 of 11]

If Attrition means challenge every Commanding officer to a duel then yes. I think that's true if you challenge a Klingon Captain and win the duel you become the captain. The dude is a power gamer and all he's ever played was D&D so it's all about the stats. Enrious I like that idea! 1d6 to stun that makes mucho sense-o! But the "real" question is how much do I like this player (He's a friend's bro so it's kinda hard since he plays too)? And I'll take C5 for $100, the answer is TN. What is 20 Alex? You're right! Thank you all for the tremendous input, I found a fair way of working this out using the books and rules. I believe the answers are in the books its just I need a few extra pair of eyes finding it.

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[Fab]

In the case of the VNP, I think the balance comes into it because only Vulcans can do it. I know there were offhand remarks that Spock tried to teach it to Kirk. I would assume it could be done by other species, but the way the RPG is laid out it cannot. Vulcans never act illogically (or at least they shouldn't), so even if a Vulcan had a power where he could kill instantly by merely willing it to happen, it would still be "balancing" to some degree because a good Vulcan would never use such a power except in dire, dire emergencies.

So if this Vulcan NPC decided the fight had gone on too long, he drops the Klingon. I'm sure he didn't then pull out a dagger and gut the unconscious Klingon, right? So there's your balance. If a Klingon had the power of the VNP, the Vulcan would have been dead. In this case, the Vulcan used a potentially unbalance power but moderated his use of it in a very balanced way. In the end, the Klingon merely learned a lesson, not to fight a Vulcan (at least that particular Vulcan). So game balance was not disrupted, only the Klingon's pride.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by C5
Wait... I seem to recall a TOS episode, Assignement : Earth, where Spock Nerve Pinches Gary Seven for at least a full round without effect. Granted, Seven was a rather peculiar Human, not a Klingon, but he resisted it nonetheless. And since Spock kept the grip for the full round, it's hard to believe he failed his Nerve pinch roll (unless he made a very critical failure).

I think I might add a Stamina roll for the Nerve Pinch, but a very high one (20 for instance).

Gary Seven was an agent of an alien (superior) race. He was more then likely trained and conditioned (ie augmented) to resist such things. This makes him a rather unique person.

Also, as canon states Vulcans are not the only ones who can do the VNP, Data used the maneuver successfully in "Reunification" KO'ing Sela. Again another unique case...Hmmm, not really I guess. There are (were) 3 Data's running around.

[C5]

My personal take on the VNP was that one had to spend many years practising it before being able to reproduce it. This would explain why every Vulcan can do it (they learn it during childhood, like a language), and why Kirk (not the worst H2H fighter in Trekdom ) never managed to learn it.
As for Data... hey, this guy could learn a language overnight, so I don't think him learning the VNP in a few hours was a problem.

[7 of 11]

If I may pick y'alls brain one more time... the OTHER major complaint he had was in combat, it would be too difficult to perform a VNP. He said in all instances (TV or movie related) that it was used as a sneak attack. He demostrated on me and yes I was able to block it. I told him "I'm gonna punch you ready?" . So I swung low to the ribs and succeed. So I reason that if I can brawl with fists I can brawl a VNP treating it like a special move (like a flying kick or an arm lock). Does that make sense, that I can use a VNP in combat like fists or feet? Ooooo thanks Tobian I never thought about the affects if you survive a VNP, Heavy stun is in order (cut in half). Thanks all and I hope I don't fry your brain thinking about this!

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[Phantom]

I would think it is possible, but the series has shown how difficult it was for Spock to do so while in hand to hand. There was an ep, the one with the TOS parasites, Spock tried to take control of the bridge. During the brawl with the Captain, Kirk seemed to make sure that he had a grip on Spock's hand at all times. So, it would be difficult. This is the one thing that makes me say "no" to the martial arts move idea...Its too easy to block in a stand up fight. Nimoy himself described it as Spock having studied the anatomy of many species and knowing where all the nerve points are, and using a "force" radiating from his finger tips (Psi??) he could put pressure on these points thus renedering hte person unconscious.

Gotta love the FSNP.

[Owen E Oulton]

Here's how I'd work it - the Vulcan would have to perform a grappling manoeuvre first, and if succesful make the FSNP an an opportunity attack (basically, immediately make the pinch at no penalty for secondary movements, etc...). If his opponent successfully dodges or parries the grapple, no pinch is possible. This duplicates in game mechanics the situations mentioned.

[Karg]

Originally posted by Phantom
Gary Seven was an agent of an alien (superior) race. He was more then likely trained and conditioned (ie augmented) to resist such things. This makes him a rather unique person.

Also, as canon states Vulcans are not the only ones who can do the VNP, Data used the maneuver successfully in "Reunification" KO'ing Sela. Again another unique case...Hmmm, not really I guess. There are (were) 3 Data's running around.

I would chalk this up to the fact that being an Android, Data was able to perfectly mimic the move.

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by Phantom
. . . .Kirk seemed to make sure that he had a grip on Spock's hand at all times. So, it would be difficult. This is the one thing that makes me say "no" to the martial arts move idea...Its too easy to block in a stand up fight. . . .

Not all moves in a style are designed for frontal attack (the Chen Na component of Shaolin Kung Fu; some parts of Ninjitsu), nor are all styles designed for frontal attack (the Japanese pacifist martial art of Aikido).

Plus, blocking a move all depends on pitting your speed against that of your opponent. In theory, all moves are blockable or dodgeable, but that doesn't mean you're always going to be faster than your opponent.

Considering that there are real-world nerve strike techniques with identical effects as the VNP, it seems perfectly reasonable that the VNP could be a martial arts move. The Vulcan Nerve Pinch could have a Psi component to it if you wanted it in your game, but it isn't necessary.

Ezri's Toy
an out-of-shape purple belt in Hoc Long Do; dabbler in Tai Chi and Kung Fu

[7 of 11]

That's what I was thinking, that if I stood in a boxing stance and can hit a person with the "Cross, Hook, Uppercut"(In Ops Man Boxing/Smash-fist) expecting punches in the face why couldn't I slip by to do a VNP? Instead of popping a character in the mouth it's a little lower and to the right with little or no force involved (I think). I value all of you opinions in this thread and you all keep on busting me up with great, new, innoventive ideas! Thanks for the input and I hope this helps you all some too!

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[Phantom]

Originally posted by Ezri's Toy
Not all moves in a style are designed for frontal attack (the Chen Na component of Shaolin Kung Fu; some parts of Ninjitsu), nor are all styles designed for frontal attack (the Japanese pacifist martial art of Aikido).

Ezri's Toy
an out-of-shape purple belt in Hoc Long Do; dabbler in Tai Chi and Kung Fu

I didn't say it wouldn't work, I said it would make it more difficult. The VNP is a definite asset in a fight, as long as you can land the attack.

Phantom
a getting into shape red belt in Karate.

Since we seem to be comparing clothing accessories.

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by Phantom

Phantom
a getting into shape red belt in Karate.

Since we seem to be comparing clothing accessories.

"All colored belts do is hold your pants up." -Bruce Lee

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Ezri's Toy
"All colored belts do is hold your pants up." -Bruce Lee

I bow to the words of the Master.

[pesterfield]

Something else to consider concerning VNP power, Spock once made a horse go down pretty fast using it.

Basically it's just blocking air and blood flow to the brain, a human can do it at the right point as well. Just the Vulcans have figured out a method to do it instantly instead of needing a long pressure.