Question about "renown promotions"

[Fab]

In the SOM, it lists an optional promotion method using Renown where you expend Renown to purchase promotions. Now, I have a question. At the back of the NG, it shows some canon characters and their renown. For example, Kirk has a Renown of 38 and is a captain. So does that mean he actually earned 98 Renown (spending 60 of it on promotions to get to captain)?

So if you have a game where you use Renown promotions, would you end up giving out approximately 2.5 times more Renown than normal? And if so, doesn't that defeat the purpose of using that method?

But if you don't, then it means Kirk could only have been a Lieutenant Commander with 14 Renown left over.

Also, on the Renown table 3.1 in the SOM, it says 10 for Each successive flag rank. I assume that means ten more, so captain is 20, then commodore is 30, then Rear Admiral is 40, and so on? Otherwise, if commodore and rear admiral were just 10 and 10, earning flag ranks would be easier that making it to captain.

[Tobian]

I think it was meant as an alternative to stop people going up in ranks at an artifically accelerated rate. For example if you handed out enough experience in gaming sessions for 1 advancements (5 picks) a player could decide to spend it on a promotion (in deference to anything else!) if they did this every time you played you basically have an underskilled captain, who has no renown (or very little relativelly). With respect to the statted characters in the book they are most likelly using a realistic approach in combination with the original method.

In my campaign I actually use a hybrid system, from the one in the SOM - I use the figures in there as a levels of renown a player has to achieve before they are allowed to buy themselves a promotion edge. EG. 10 to be a LTjg 20 to be a LTsg - they don't spend the renown, just the advancement picks when they have enough available. I didn't think it made any sense that your renown would go down because you went up in rank.

At the end of the day promotions should be about roleplaying. On the show they are very few and far between, and usualy as a result of long service or a particularly heroic or intelligent act. They shouldn't be available to buy at every advancement because it rapidly becomes unrealistic!

[Fab]

That sounds like a much better system. I also have a problem with permitting promotions every advancement, it makes no sense. But likewise, renown shouldn't drop like a rock because you got the promotion. A famous commander is not the same as an unknown captain. Mr. Spock is a famous commander, and as soon as he was promoted to captain, he remained a famous captain. It's not like he took a big hit to his fame and renown, I wouldn't think.

But likewise, I also don't know about spending advancement points on a promotion edge. It's almost the same as spending renown. It would seem someone who spent more time on skills should be promoted faster, yet the game makes you spend less on skills in order to be promoted. One way to view it is to say that to be promoted the candidate has to spend time qualifying on various ship systems, standing before a review board, filling out forms and the like, all of which time is not available to train new skills. But I don't think it would be out of ordinary to allow promotions at the stated renown levels from the SOM automatically.

Let me ask, when you do that (use the SOM chart as a minimum before you can "buy" a promotion) do you use it as shown (i.e. 12 renown lets you buy lieutenant commander) or as stated (i.e. 24 (4+8+12) lets you buy lieutenant commander)? If you follow it as stated the canon characters don't fit in (which may not indicate a problem) but if you follow it simply as shown then they all do (except Janeway with only 19 renown).

The reason I ask is a buddy of mine is trying being a GM for his first time, and wanted a break after the first episode. I have GMed for probably 15 years now, so I stepped up to take the load off of him for the second episode to let him husband his strength and ideas for episode three. He and I both were unsure how to approach promotions to keep things balanced. Right now the only person who is higher than a lieutenant (junior grade) is the character playing the ship's counselor (also a fully trained doctor) and we let her be a lieutenant commander pretty much off the start since in the modern military doctors, judge advocate guys and so forth all start off at O-3 (equivalent of full lieutenant in the game). So basically we all have taken one promotion. But if it comes up in the future, I'd like to have a good way to handle it.

[Tobian]

Because it's a house rule, it's never going to be a 'one size fits all' thing - The statted characters are unlikelly to show up in any game and they aren't likelly to fit in with my own house rules!

I think characters should spend their points on either a promotion or a skill. I used the renown as a guideline, because renown is slightly more rare than experience (you aren't likelly to be leading a fleet battle to attack quonos weekly, or save Earth from yet another 'whale probe' incident every session!). Promotion IMHO should be treated like anything else, it's an advantage from a pure game mechanics point of view, so if you want it you have to give up something else - you shouldn't hand out too much free anything in a game!

For example - one player raises his skill and buys and edge which enhances it further using his 5 picks - whole another raises his rank. Yes the higher ranking player has the advantage of better clearance codes / equiptment and the opportunity to boss other players around, but the tradeoff for that was his lack of skill specialisations, so the captain might not pick him for a mission, because the other player is far more skilled. - Besides, if you think a player has done particularly well, you could simply have your NPC captain promote him (and include enforced advancement pick giving and spending) and call it an experience bonus for good roleplaying (and presumably coming out of the mission with flying colours!)

[qerlin]

I don't allow them to buy promotions. I use a time in service/grade scale. They have to stay in their grade for a certain length of time before they can be promoted; then unless they have done something naughty. I don't normally make them pay for the promotion, but have them do (or if their CO wants them promoted, his) an administration roll to get the paperwork through. (You could still have them spend the points if they succeed.) The commander could order a waiver of the time in grade, which halves the TIG.

ENS to LTJ: TIG 1yr/6mo. waived Admin TN 5 (nearly automatic)
LTJ to LT: TIG 2 years/1 yr waived Admin TN 10
LT to LCDR: TIG 6 years/3yr waived Admin TN 15
LCDR to CDR: 6 years/3 yr waived Admin TN 20
CDR to CPT: 6 yr/3yr waived Admin TN25 (might also want a renown limit at this point; promotion to captain & above is usually based on who you know/who knows you)
CPT to RADM: 2 years/no waiver Admin TN 30 (definitely want a renown limit -- this is an elite club, after all!)
RADM to VADM: 1 yr/no waiver Admin TN30
VADM to ADM: 1 yr/no waiver Have to play politics for it, so if you're not on an assignment at SFC or on Earth, you probably won't get it. Use Persuade instead of Admin; you have to schmooze. Rollplay it out...
ADM to FADM: only if there isn't one. Have to play politics for it, so if you're not on an assignment at SFC or on Earth, you probably won't get it. Use Persuade instead of Admin; you have to schmooze. Role play it out...

[JonA]

Personally I like the Renown Points based promotion. It fits with my idea of getting yourself noticed in Starfleet will get your name to the top of the promotion list quicker.

My players have a running total of Renown but they they also have a Promotion Renown stat (when I give them a Renown point/s they add to their total and to their Promotional one). When their Promotional Renown hits the required amount for a promotion and they get their promotion it's zeroed. Although their full Renown stat remains.

I think that makes sense. It's late here and I'm still at work so forgive me if it sounds like gibberish.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

I don't let players buy promotions either. Either I give them out as very rare rewards if the characters do something extremely spectacular, or they are given for time in grade and overall performance. Personally, I think it is a very bad idea to allow players to buy promotions. They should be rewards, not something that can be bought like a six pack.

[qerlin]

The Scots have spoken! End of discussion.