View Poll Results: Do you like looking at a hot body (whether it be male or female)?

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  • Yes

    49 94.23%
  • No

    3 5.77%
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Thread: Sex Sells

  1. #1

    Smile Sex Sells

    OK, inspired by the T'pol uniform debate. Lets settle the matter once and for all.

    Sex sells. It always has done, and while we might like things to be different, the truth is that Sex has been used to sell products and ideas throughout human history (There is a reason that Prostitution is called the worlds oldest profession).

    So the question is simple, all we need to do is be true to ourselves in the answer.

    Do you like looking at a hot body (whether it be male or female)?
    DanG/Darth Gurden
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  2. #2
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    As Bill Hicks said:

    "The Supreme Court in the US defined pornography as an image that has no artistic merit and causes sexual thought.

    Hmmm

    Sounds like almost every advert ever made."

    Admiring the female body is not wrong. I do it - I challenge any man to come in to my office and not (I'm just as red blooded as the next man).

    But the question that you should be asking is it justifiable to market your programme/product using the female form in a sexually alluring manner.

    That was my point.

    I'd be interested to learn of what the female members of this forum think btw but they seem to have been very quiet.

    Where's Liz when you need her?

    Last edited by JonA; 08-19-2003 at 09:54 AM.
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  3. #3
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    The Question is not that sex sells. That is a proven fact that it does but the real questions is this:

    Do Deanna Troi's, 7 of 9's and T'Pol's unique uniforms (that are obviously designed to show off the actress's body more so than the standard uniform everyone else wears) appropriate and in the spirit of Star Trek?

    Let's be realistic the standard uniforms on all the shows are tight to all the actors'/actresses' bodies in Star Trek. They leave little to the imagination yet those 3 have this unique uniforms. In TOS all the women wore miniskirts on their uniforms and Deanna wore a uniform that had a miniskirit in Encounter at Farpoint. Then she wore that tight outfit (which I never liked) until the Episode Chain of Command where she was ordered to wear a uniform by Captain Jellico. I thought she looked hell of of a alot better in uniform than in that suit and showed off her body better, which that other suit was suppose to do.
    I honestly think this unique uniform trend to show off the actress's body more so than the rest of the crew is getting overboard. They seem to make an excuse for them not wearing the uniform. 7 of 9 had as much Starfleet experience as many of the Marque crew members (which all wore uniforms) did with Starfleet yet she did not wear a uniform. I always thought that was strange. T'Pol resinged from Vulcan Command and is now part of Archer's Crew. Why is she not in Starfleet Uniform? Why is she wearing something unique still that leaves little to the imagination like her old suit? Simple sex sells. Why is it non of the regular male cast members on any of the shows dressed provactively unique like Deanna Troi, 7 of 9 and T'Pol?
    But is this appropriate for Star Trek that is suppose to be a show that shows we can be better than where we are now but instead have fallen backl to old TV Standards... Sex sales only on a female body not on a male body. This is not in the spirit of the show or Trek. Its getting worse not better.
    Hey my opinion

    Without Star Trek: The Original Series there would be no other Trek Series or Movies regardless of shows rewriting the Series past.

  4. #4

    Exclamation Boo!

    This message has been removed on request by the
    poster

  5. #5
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    The answer to the question asked, as far as I'm concerned, is Yes, I like to look at a (female only) hot body. No matter if I get labelled me as a chauvinist pig.

    Now, JonA and T'lara both have very valid points here. Personally, I don't care whether the actors are good looking or not when I watch a series; okay, if the actresses happend to be hot, it's a plus, but it won't make me watch a series I'm not interested in (in fact, porn would be the only form of entertainment where the appearance of the female cast is a decisive factor for me ).
    For instance, Buffy The Vampire Slayer got plenty of hot babes, yet I'm not watching it since I'm not very interested in it, no matter how gorgeous Miss Gellar is.

    As for the particular case of Trek... it's true that since TOS, women in Trek always got revealing uniforms or clothes (remember the alien females in TOS ?). If anything, Enterprise equalises things a bit by having males in the decon chamber as well . Now this doesn't make me want to watch Trek or not either.
    And BTW, how many TV series feature unattractive women wearing unrevealing clothes ? Even Doctor Who had its share of miniskirted female companions.
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
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  6. #6
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    Re: Boo!

    Originally posted by Liz Not Beth
    [B]Case in point: toppless carwash to raise money for the United Way couple years back.
    B]
    ?????????????????
    We have all your working biros and we're not afraid to use them.

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  7. #7
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    Okay, I am uncertain about the point of this poll other than to say "It's okay to put characters on Trek into whatever clothes will make them look hot."

    In other words, this seems to be about the disconnect between the marketing of Trek and the supposed message of Trek.

    The Trek-verse proportedly stands for racial, gender, and social equality. OTOH, 7-of-9 and the like are brought on the show and given the "uniforms" they have due to nice gams and huge tracks of land, which flies in the face of that message.

    Yes, I like a nice looking woman -- I would be lying if I said otherwise. (Then again my ideal of beauty for years was Helena Bonham Carter, in her pre-Fight Club look). However, this does not mean that I am attracted to a show because of the appearance of a character, because of the skimpiness or form-fittingness of the uniform. I find these attempts to push the sexy side of a character on Trek to be embarassing and rather silly.

    In the end, sex may sell a program, but if the program has naught behind it, the sex will not help.

    Look at Showgirls...

  8. #8
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    Arrow Re: Sex Sells

    Originally posted by Dan Gurden

    Do you like looking at a hot body (whether it be male or female)?
    I don't know. Answer me this: Is this a GENERAL question, or does it have anything to do with Star Trek?

    If this is a general question, then YES, I do like looking at hot female bodies. Camryn Manheim does not turn me on. And no matter how much of a teaser Anna Nicole Smith can be, she's not the kind of blonde I'd go for. I do not have fantasies with Oprah, and I do not get aroused at the sight of Roseanne (Barr? Thomas?).

    But do I need it in Star Trek? Just a little, but not so much it overshadows the stories, which is the prime reason I watch Star Trek in the first place. I mean, if I want hot bodies, I watch my, ahem, collection and taped Baywatch episodes.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
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    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
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  9. #9
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    You know, what I find a bit funny is that people are so sensitive about sexuality in Trek. Okay, having the Hot Babe wearing SkinTight Uniforms may be over the top, but who cares ? If it can draw people to the audience, the better; if it can't, well, that's just eye candy (no offense meant to anyone) and let's get on with the show.
    Every series has its share of beautiful creatures, and I don't think Trek can really escape this tendency. Beside, it was originated in the holy TOS itself : I don't think there's a lot of episodes in which we don't see the legs of every featured female, and we even had the occasional topless-Kirk sequence.
    I'm not saying this should be what Trek would be remembered for, but I don't think it should be constantly raised as a proof that Trek has decayed or whatever. Actually, what I'm more concerned about when it comes to women in Trek is the fact that they are a minority in every series cast (there is usually two women on seven characters, with Voyager slightly improving this statistic).
    This is what I find most annoying about Trek's "sexism".
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
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  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Ramage
    In the end, sex may sell a program, but if the program has naught behind it, the sex will not help.
    Explain Baywatch then?
    We have all your working biros and we're not afraid to use them.

    Leave a box of used postit notes and a box of paperclips inside the filling cabinet and things won't get nasty.

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  11. #11
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    Arrow

    Originally posted by C5

    I'm not saying this should be what Trek would be remembered for, but I don't think it should be constantly raised as a proof that Trek has decayed or whatever.
    It can't be helped the way we think about the producers and the writers. If they couldn't come up with a good story, they always turn to sex as their savior.

    Maybe I'm too old for Trek, because I care more about the story than the sex they're displaying. I'd rather remember Trek for the story that pushes our social issue to the forefront.

    As for the "quota" -- or lack of female characters in the show -- again, I rather prefer story that explore sexism, than having a bunch of female crewmembers with the front zipper of their uniform down to their navel, slo-motion running through the corridors, in order to fill a quota of having more female characters.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

  12. #12
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    Yes I think we're all agreed that sex sells. We know it does, many shows have been bourne on the back of what the stars look like - I could quote forever but I think the core of the issue is this:

    The TNG episode 'the Drumhead' - it was a scintilating and fascinating drama. We had ups and downs, it was well written and we were gutted when poor Simon Tarsis had his career move ruined and imensly gratified when Pickard managed to nail Satie to the wall. Was there a single supermodel in a monotard in that episode - No, did we enjoy it - Yes. (Troi ws there, but I mean 'in your face' - no one had decon in that episode!)

    When all you can say about a show is that it has some hot babes, and talk about the uniform, to the point of not even remembering the plot, it reduces it's self to the same mindless drivel as the rest of TV - it becomes 'the episode where T'pol gets her kit off' - Now that's fine to an extent - but what happened other than that in that episode... anyone ? No thought not!

    Yes the odd scintilating moment snook in there every now and again piques the interest, but when it starts getting to the point of "Oh look, Trips in his underwear again" for the Nth time it becomes tired and formulaic.

    My point is it shouldn't be the ONLY thing that makes the episode interesting, because quite frankly Startrek is never going to be able to beat the others at their own game. If someone is tuning in ONLY to see some hot tottie, then why not watch baywatch instead!

    Forget the whole 'representing Gene Rodeberies vision' thing for a moment, the thing that made Startrek what it is today is the Jaw dropping stories and the briliant writing, not the bra droping Vulcans and the tired formulaic and repetitive writing we see today.
    Ta Muchly

  13. #13
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    And this is where the problem lies : people who like the show don't pay attention to the fact that there are hot babes in skintight suits (well, they do, but they don't focus on it). People who don't like the show, or who find the story boring, pay instead attention to everything else, including the outfits of the female crewmembers, and find something to complain about.
    So... back to the old debate again
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by REG
    As for the "quota" -- or lack of female characters in the show -- again, I rather prefer story that explore sexism, than having a bunch of female crewmembers with the front zipper of their uniform down to their navel, slo-motion running through the corridors, in order to fill a quota of having more female characters.
    You know, Reg, when I said more female characters in the show, I didn't mean to have Baywatch's cast being relocated to Star Trek...

    Anyway, I really fail to understand what the fuss is all about. Let's review the women in Trek :

    Uhura - wears standard miniskirt TOS uniform
    Yar - wears standard uniform
    Troi - wears standard uniform and other suits with some cleavage
    Crusher - wears standard uniform
    Dax(s) - wear standard uniform (apart from the Risa episode)
    Kira - wears uniform (with pointed heels though)
    Janeway - wears standard uniform
    Torres - wears standard uniform
    Kes - wears unrevealing civilian clothes
    Seven - wears skintight catsuit
    T'Pol - wears skingtight catsuit
    Hoshi - wears uniform

    So, basically, on 12 female crewmembers througout the series, we have two wearing very revealing outfits and two others wearing rather revealing outfit (Uhura an Troi). Granted, the two catsuits belong to the latest series, which happen to be written by the infamous Bermann & Braga (I'm sure someone will one day prove they are also responsible for Spock's brain), but nevertheless I don't find this to be the proof of the decadence of Trek (whether Trek is really decaying is another debate that has been done to death IMHO).
    Unless you want Trek to be completely sexless ?
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett

  15. #15
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    Darn, are the polls closed?

    I wanted to vote! WAAHHHHH!!!

    Anyhoo, here I'll cast my vote. I love looking at hot chicks in skintight outfits. (Hooters is my favorite hangout...hee hee hee hee hee).

    However, as with many other fans of Trek, I regard the hot chicks factor as a mere bonus. There are those who deplore such women, claiming that they do not know how to act, having only their bodies to rely on to sell the show.

    I beg to differ. I have always found Jeri Ryan's and Jolene Blalock's performances to be wonderful. And, they play capable, empowered, intelligent women. Again, that they happen to be uber-babes is a bonus.

    Now, if you want to see political correctness at its worst (and I've never heard of PC at its best) try living near a college campus where you have hotties go walking by all the time in outfits even more revealing than those we see on current Trek series. If a white heterosexual male (the endangered species in the US) even tries to make a polite compliment to them, the girl in question immediately looks at him as if he was a sexual predator. HELL, I'm in a band...I should think that gives me some leeway. (sarcasm)

    I know that many of you probably do live near college campuses, or perhaps on them (as I am sure some of you are college students.) Then you know the pains you must endure having to deal with the purveyors of Political Correctness (aka...Thought Police).

    Respectfully,
    General Chang
    "So the Enterprise is on her maiden voyage, eh? Now that is one well endowed lady. Ah'd like to get mah hands on her ample nacelles, if ye'll pardon the bit o' engineerin' parlance." -Scotty, STAR TREK, 2009

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