In a way, I partially blame myself…(warning: Ent-rant…)

[First of Two]

IMHO, the mistake was taking the damned thing OUT of syndication. UPN? please. Because Paramount insisted on showing the thing only on their own stations, I missed 50% of Voyager and about 90% of Enterprise so far.

That, and I now work while it's on, and I haven't learned how to use the VCR and the Cable box in tandem yet.

[Owen E Oulton]

Going to a fringe "Network" was certainly a factor. Other factors are the 500-channel cable/satellite universe, and the blossoming of SF TV throughout the '90s. TNG had an essential monopoly on the SF viewers - I mean the only other SF on at the time was ALF.

[Evan van Eyk]

Just in case that was missed - I like Enterprise too. It is has the essence of TRek in in and too hell with continuity! Where was continuity when Romulans had the same ships as Klingons in TOS - of course out of budget reasons? Where was continuity when UESPA changed into Starfleet and United Earth into UFP, without a single word about it? Where was continuity when Enterprise' logo suddenly was the Starfleet emblem? Where was continuity when the Klingons suddenly looked completely different? Where was continuity when the communist Klingons from TOS developed into a aristocratical system in the Movie Era, without a single word about it? Where was continuity when we see Picard with brown hairs in a flashback in TNG as Captain of the Stargazer, and he has a bold head as cadet in Nemesis?
I think I could go on and on like this with thousands of examples.

No series is perfect, but the question is do you watch Trek because of the exiting stories and the theme of it, or because everyone has a uniform look and beware if one crewman has a bit more reddish uniform?

[REG]

You're preaching to the choir, Modem ... at least to me. So far, I have tolerated (like I tolerated rabies shots) the show because it is Enterprise in name only. But I would be more offended if they officially change the title to Star Trek: Enterprise, because I do not accept this as the official storyline and history of the main universe, just an alternate universe or parallel reality.

And, you're right, Tobian. Like or loathe it, I watched it (late Saturday evening since local station drop UPN affiliate), like I used to watch the Jerry Springer Show* with off-the-wall topics (cheating, incest, weird sex, etc.). But eventually I have gotten tired of it, and I may do so with Enterprise.

* How the growing UK audience could love this show is beyond me. Maybe it's that "Yankee Inferiority" thing.

And while I give major, MAJOR props to Berman during his early career with the Trek franchise, his recent decisions as of late left me to question whether he should continue his leadership position of that franchise. For example, when Ron D. Moore went to him and complained the uncomfortable working environment of the Voyager production set, Berman was quick to defend Braga, so his brief employment lasted one summer. It was Berman who hired Stuart Baird to direct NEMESIS thinking he could catch lightning like when Nicholas Meyer was the first movie director that is not a Trek fan initially but made Star Trek II a great film. It would have been a lot easier if they just hired Nick.

In summary, what he had at the beginning, he lost it somewhere along the way.

[prophetsteve]

No series is perfect, but the question is do you watch Trek because of the exiting stories and the theme of it, or because everyone has a uniform look and beware if one crewman has a bit more reddish uniform?

Well I have a lot of problems with Enterprise but I do agree with Evan's statement. After my own rants about Enterprise continutiy back in season one I found myself watching a lot of older Trek. I came the conclusion that for all the talk of Trek continuity, there never has really been anything of the sort (at least not on a consistant basis).

I am going to try and judge Enterprise on the quality of their stories next season and be less judgmental on their continuity issues. Though if there is another Ferengi episode....

Here's hoping that third times the charm and that the changes they made in the series actually improve the series.

[The Midnighter]

Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
Just in case that was missed - I like Enterprise too. It is has the essence of TRek in in and too hell with continuity! Where was continuity when Romulans had the same ships as Klingons in TOS - of course out of budget reasons? Where was continuity when UESPA changed into Starfleet and United Earth into UFP, without a single word about it? Where was continuity when Enterprise' logo suddenly was the Starfleet emblem? Where was continuity when the Klingons suddenly looked completely different? Where was continuity when the communist Klingons from TOS developed into a aristocratical system in the Movie Era, without a single word about it? Where was continuity when we see Picard with brown hairs in a flashback in TNG as Captain of the Stargazer, and he has a bold head as cadet in Nemesis?
I think I could go on and on like this with thousands of examples.

No series is perfect, but the question is do you watch Trek because of the exiting stories and the theme of it, or because everyone has a uniform look and beware if one crewman has a bit more reddish uniform?

FINALLY!

There's someone here who feels the same way I do!

Every time I've read someone's anti-Enterprise rant, the same blessed complaint keeps coming up -- "they're screwing with the continuity...they're ruining the franchise...", ad infinitum.

As Evan so eloquently put it, to hell with continuity!

Why oh why can't we just sit back and enjoy good stories??

Evan, you made an excellent point...thank you!

[Tobian]

Uhm, unfortunatelly the continuity is only half of what the complaints are about.. The other half was the lack of 'good stories'.

Are you seriously saying you are not bothered if they ruin continuity? So we could have the dead come back to life, Delta quadrant aliens turn up, the Borg could invade and assimilate earth Oohh and The Vulcans could complete their destiny and conquor the known galaxy with their vicious xenophobic ways ! Cool - let me set my video

[The Midnighter]

Originally posted by Tobian
Uhm, unfortunatelly the continuity is only half of what the complaints are about.. The other half was the lack of 'good stories'.

First of all, I'd like to know your definition of "good story". If you're hoping for stories on the level of TOS or the others, here's something to keep in mind...this is Enterprise, not TOS, TNG, etc. It's going to have its own style of story, not have stories cloned from the other series...or is that what a lot of you want?

Are you seriously saying you are not bothered if they ruin continuity? So we could have the dead come back to life, Delta quadrant aliens turn up, the Borg could invade and assimilate earth Oohh and The Vulcans could complete their destiny and conquor the known galaxy with their vicious xenophobic ways ! Cool - let me set my video

Alright, now you're being ridiculous, not to mention insulting. That's not what I meant and you bloody well know it.

Here's a bonafide fact: Continuity is NOT being ruined.

I'll keep saying that till I'm buried in the ground.

There are far, far too many questions to be answered -- as Evan put it -- in the history of the Trek universe, so why, WHY, I ask you, do you need to spend so time worrying about them?

Has it ever occured to you that for one, they're filling in some of the gaps -- and two, they're adding to the history -- as well as tying in to elements of the other series???

No, what most of you are worrying about is that this show -- god forbid -- doesn't tie in all nice and neat with everything else.

SO WHAT?

Read the novels that are out there --

Oh wait, a lot of you won't, because they tend to work outside the precious continuity...god forbid it gets tampered with in printas well.

The rants against Enterprise are pointless, because nothing is really being harmed at all, except some sensibilities.

I've asked this question before, and I'll ask it again:

Can't you just sit back and enjoy a story without picking every single bit apart??

[prophetsteve]

First of all, I'd like to know your definition of "good story". If you're hoping for stories on the level of TOS or the others, here's something to keep in mind...this is Enterprise, not TOS, TNG, etc. It's going to have its own style of story, not have stories cloned from the other series...or is that what a lot of you want?

I agree with a lot of what you said, Midnighter. Pretty much what I am coming to believe with most science fiction shows. Hard for a continuity hound like me to let go of, but...

The big problem is that Enterprise isn't having its own style of story - its one of those problems of the series. It doesn't know what it wants to be. One minute they are going with the TOS feel, the next with TNG. Now it seems like its going the DS9 route with the Xinti the stand-ins for the Breen (the mysterious agressive aliens). I personally would like to see Enterprise find its own path, even if that path is not not exactly what we have seen before (I personally think that Enterprise should have been a bit more military since they are not that far from their primative routes - and still far from the utopia that TOS/TNG era UFP was about).

I want Enterprise to be good and I hope this new direction is the answer. Enterprise needs some better writing and some clear feel. It can't just emulate various Trek series (or recreate various Trek episodes), but needs to find its own unique feel... just like most of the Trek series have done.

[The Midnighter]

Originally posted by prophetsteve
I agree with a lot of what you said, Midnighter. Pretty much what I am coming to believe with most science fiction shows. Hard for a continuity hound like me to let go of, but...

Thank you, prophetsteve. Appreciate the support.

The big problem is that Enterprise isn't having its own style of story - its one of those problems of the series. It doesn't know what it wants to be. One minute they are going with the TOS feel, the next with TNG. Now it seems like its going the DS9 route with the Xinti the stand-ins for the Breen (the mysterious agressive aliens). I personally would like to see Enterprise find its own path, even if that path is not not exactly what we have seen before (I personally think that Enterprise should have been a bit more military since they are not that far from their primative routes - and still far from the utopia that TOS/TNG era UFP was about).

I want Enterprise to be good and I hope this new direction is the answer. Enterprise needs some better writing and some clear feel. It can't just emulate various Trek series (or recreate various Trek episodes), but needs to find its own unique feel... just like most of the Trek series have done.

To quote the great Reverend Ike (aka Flip Wilson), Enterprise "has got to crawl before it can walk, and walk before it can run".

Once Enterprise finds its own niche, story-wise, (and it will, have faith) I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised...and others will finally wonder "whatever were we ranting about?"

[C5]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one out there who can turn off the parts of my brain that want to nitpick because they would ruin my enjoying of a good story. Who cares if the Captain beams down to the surface while everybody can tell it's a very stupid decision if it leads to an enthralling story ? Who cares if an alien race suddenly developps a behaviour or custom it never had before if it gives a new twist to the plot ?
And, similarly, having a continuity in Trek is nice, but it mustn't become a corset for the story. And, no matter what the ENT detractors like to say, there has not been that blatant breaches of continuity in ENT. The Vulcans are too emotional ? Anybody remembers this Vulcan Captain in DS9 who almost gloated over Sisko's defeat ? Phase pistols and not lasers ? Please, guys... why not nitpick about the Klingon ridges while we're at it (oh, wait...) ?
And of course, other continuity breaches are a bit bothering, but not that much... Earth to Q'onos in 4 days ? Well in a TOS episode the Enterprise travels 1000 ly in 12 hours, so this is not the first time such a goof happens. Granted, the mind meld thing is a bit of a trouble, but I still hope for a resolution in the upcoming seasons (who's to say for instance that Sarek is not descended from the mind-melding Vulcans ?).

And finally... TOS excepted, which series found its pace in the two first seasons ? TNG's first season was just plain awful (and the second barely better IMHO), DS9's two first seasons were quite good, but not that different from TNG in their plotlines, and I can't comment on VOY since I have only seen its two first seasons.

[Joe Dizzy]

My main complaint against Enterprise is not the lack of continuity. I admit it bothers me a little, but I can easily overlook it. It's not that Enterprise lacks its own feel. I think Enterprise is quite different from the series that have come before.

My biggest complaint is that the stories are bland and boring. Not to mention the occasional episode of complete stupidity and vapidness.
Sure, Trek has had its share of filler eps and hackneyed plots but the ratio of "intelligent eps" to "utter waste of an hour" in Enterprise is simply more than I'm willing to tolerate. Too much crap and not enough gold.

Also, Trip has got to be the most obnoxious character in Star Trek; second only to Neelix.

Joe

[Tobian]

The point about Nit picking the series, is that there are more nits in it than any other. I don't mean count wise I mean like this:

I don't care about continuity: Well the bit with the XXXXXX bothered me, but I don't care...

There is always something major in an enterprise story that really messes with continuity. it's one thing to let pure nits slip by - all the series have them, but they are usually on the sense of a technical nit, which they usually explain away badly with technobabble. The Nits on enterprise are all the more blatant - like the Ferengi and the Borg! Hey, I might enjoy the episode all the same, but my craw just won't accept it.

It's been said before, you are never going to please the whole audience, but over everything else, I wish that Entperprise would just find it's own plots that fit with the era. I was being fascecious when I made my points but they are still valid.. What's so wrong with sticking to your own area?!

I'm not so doom and gloom as some people on these lists, but what I refer to about poor writing is the fact that people are turning away from Enterprise in droves and the ratings in America (where let's face it - it matters - how many scifi series that have been popular elsewhere have been given an early death over Neilsen ratings!) have bombed. Plot devices - such as bringing in 'cool' elements, such as the Borg and the Ferengi, which traditionally increase ratings are both obvious and not working for them. My point being is: how far will they go as they get more and more desperate to save the sinking ship?

[Amaz]

Can anyone honestly say that they like everything about any particular Star Trek series?

I know that I can't...but I can say that there is something I like about every Star Trek series.

So...is the glass half empty or is it half full?

[REG]

Okay, I'll ask myself, "What is one thing that I like about Enterprise?"

Well, it's...

It's...

I know it has to be the one with...

* Sighs * It's the song, even if it's from Patch Adams.