Holographic Systems

[JonA]

The USS Ascendant thread as got me thinking.

What Holographic/AI systems could Starfleet feasibly introduce to it's ships in the future?

The ECH seems like an obvious one.
KWs LCARSI is another class idea.
I'm thinking of an Engineering variant.

Maybe Holographic Commandos!?!?!?!?!

Can anyone think of any others.

Holographic systems and their sentience is a potential hot potato in the ST universe as KW as already picked up on. I think the Voyager EMH opened a huge can of worms and it's something I want to introduce in my campaign which is set post ST:Nemesis.

[KillerWhale]

I think the main techological problem is that the holos have to remain confined to some place where, obviously, there are holoemitters. Now, from there on, I can virtually imagine anything... Which is the problem: what if humanoids find out holograms can do all they do, and better?

There would also be a huge opposition from the Federation science and ethical councils, as giving too much power to an AI is likely to remind the Eugenic Wars. That's, after all, another aspect of the relative dislike of Fed citizens towards androids (remember Data and Pulaski?), genetic resequencing and cybernetic implants. The Borg hasn't helped popularize the idea either. So, the introduction of such systems clearly imply a change in the Fed thinking: that can be very interesting to study along in a game.

Just some random thoughts

[JonA]

I can just picture it now.

The Doctor from Voyager returns and becomes a Bryon (from Babylon 5) type character. He arranges for mobile emitters to be mass produced outside of the Federation leading to a whole new society with the EMH becoming their would be saviour and leader. Added to the fact that they're immortal.

The working class holograms at work in the Dilithium mines and those working other menial tasks rise up and demand "human" rights.

You could base an entire series around this concept - much like they wanted to do with Babylon 5: Crusade and the Telepath War.

How would the Federation defeat an army of holograms if they couldn't find the central processors that their programming is on. Hitting the mobile emitter would be a hard task in a battle situation and if the holograms obtained their own ships then they may be invincible as a force.

Of course these are all random thoughts off the top of my head.

[KillerWhale]

Oooh darn it, I love this one. Now imagine them siding with... the Borg

Ascendant-class starship AIs having to choose on what side to be. You could even have AIs of the same "family" fighting against one another... Like pitting Magellanic against Phoenix (the two rival AI "sisters" in my campaign, developed under Carsi's education)... or against Carsi as a metaphor of a teenager's crisis of independence... GM brain working on full power, sir...

Thanks, now I know what I'm going to do with my campaign if I ever reach the relevant period of time!!

[JonA]

Right thats it.

Star Trek: Uprising

When I get home tonight I'm gonna sit down and plot this out properly.

I picture humans would also be divided on this issue too. Some would be all for Hologram rights. Some would be against them.

It could be the Eugenics Wars of the TNG era.

And imagine the problems when the Romulans et al develop similar technology.

I don't think Federation holograms would ally with the Borg though - they'd be hard to assimilate. Although the mobile emitters would be of interest to them (remember the episode Drone in Voyager). But it wouldn't stop them developing their own holographic drones!

And it's all Janeway's fault ultimately as she allowed the EMH to exceed his level of programming by furthering his sentience! Although the Federation would also be at fault for providing the facility that was capable of this level of sentience even if they never intended for this technology to be used in this manner and never forsaw it until it was too late.

It could basically be a slavery issue in the future.

[KillerWhale]

Exactly! All these are most excellent thoughts!! And very sci-fi and Trek to the core. Yummy... I love this!

[JonA]

Just do me a favour KW.

If you introduce this plot line into your campaign could you keep us (well me) apprised of how it works out? What you do with the story line? Via PM if your players view this board and you want to keep it secret.

I'm fully intending to use this idea myself so I'll do likewise.

A slow buildup in Season 1-4 with the occasional mention of a growing numper of holographic agitators within the Federation. Leading on to the diplomatic phase when the Federation tries to reason with the Holograms and AIs that they were designed to service the Federation, not rule it and that although they may enjoy freedoms that all Federation members take for granted, they are purely the sum of the programming and that they were created equal by Dr Zimmerman and other scientists of his kind. As such they shouldn't by rebelling against their creators.

Ultimately the Federation Council attempts to curb sentient holography development by outlawing the production of such technology in the future. They eventually pass a law curtailing the rights of existing holograms. At this stage (season 4) I'm toying with the idea of the Council - in desperation to pacify the people of the Federation who are concerned by the increase in unemployment due to being replaced by holograms) passing a law that all existing holograms submit to having the programs rewritten to incorporate a set of directives similar to Asimov's Laws of Robotics and that any future AI/Sentient Holograms also have this directive written in. Any holograms that resist are decompiled, any developers who refuse to implement these directives in their work will be tried.

Obviously Season 5 onwards is when things get "messy" with the Rise of the Holograms. Certain more advanced Starships are comandeered by ECHs, LCARSIs, EMHs, LMHs, EEHs etc and the crews are powerless to do anything as they're locked out of control of their own vessels by the computer systems.

Starfleet begins to rely on it's older ships that don't yet have holograms or automated AI control systems to fight against their best ships and as such Starfleet has major problems - how do you out think a AI? Imagine, how would a Miranda Class fair against a Sovereign or Prometheus Class? Even 10 Miranda Classes would struggle I think. Especially when the Human captain is going up against an ECH controlled ship that can predict strategies and utilise a memory of warfare and tactics from 100s of races over 1000s of years.

Need to do some more work. Brain beginning to melt.

[KillerWhale]

JonA, these ideas are just grand. Not only that but this conflict can build up behind the scenes, during a regular campaign, until the players realize it's too late.

As we still have the Dominion War to pass in my campaign (current year 2372), I don't think I'll be able to tackle it soon, but I'll keep you posted as to how things turn up.

Here's a plotline I will develop soon however...


STRPG players DO NOT READ THIS! You know I know you well to guess if you did and dudes, say farewell to your XPs in that case!




Okay.



We're alone?

Good.

When the Ascendant class is approved, the Ascendant will undergo a refit according to the class. Carsi will then put in a simulated environment with Maffei, Magellanic and Phoenix in order to teach them fast (they're AIs after all), under the tutelage of Starfleet of course. In a sense, Carsi is therefore like their "mother" (being prototype and all).

Three behaviours arise:
- Phoenix is the "shy child", very devoted to her crew, not independent, not daring to take initiatives.
- Magellanic is the "rebellious child": she is independent, but properly channeled, her energy can be put to good use.
- Maffei is the "reasonable child", probably the most stable personality, taking Carsi as the reasonable example.

All three ships are launched.

The captain of the USS Pax Magellanic has lost his wife in the first Cardassian border conflicts, and ever since his love life has been a disaster - he had the "Kirk" syndrome: never being able to settle down due to Starfleet life, although he wanted, he never was able to know true love again.

And slowly, weirdly, he began to fall in love with Magellanic (isn't she the perfect metaphoric ideal to a Starfleet captain - be married to his ship?). Her, being a young conscience, returned the feelings (inconscisouly viewing them as a subtile form of "rebellion"). Her program became more and more complex.

Comes the Dominion War and the First Battle of Betazed. The USS Pax Magellanic comes to play a vital role in the defense of the planet - they must launch a suicide attack on enemy forces. Captain orders that. Magellanic mixes duty, independence and love. She feels betrayed, hacks her own program restrictions, takes command... And kills everyone aboard, replacing them by sub-holograms which are only emanations of herself (how schizophrenic is that?). She flees and is not heard of anymore... Until the Ascendant finds her, and Carsi tries to reason with her mad daughter.

This story is heavily inspired from the Andromeda ep "The mathematics of tears".

[Elite Naroon]

I would have to say that the most I would want to see is the an LMH (Long-term Medical Hologram) installed. The idea of having holograms doing everything disturbs me. The fact that it is stated that a human has the ability to judge or analyze problems and find solutions is greater then that of allowing a computer to do so. (See WarGames) AI is supurb technology but it's still arificial which can never surpass that of a real person. You want to make a ship that can run on its own which would be catastrophic at best. What happens if the computers go heywire?


I like your signature

[Gabe Mitchell]

Read Memory Prime... it's a TOS novel that actually deals with a similar concept. The Pathfinders are basically sentient AI programs from different backgrounds... one was the ship-mind for a Federation starship, so on and so forth. While geared more towards your typical AI programs (since I think Memory Prime was written before TNG came out), I think it might help give you guys some more ideas.

[KillerWhale]

Thanks Narron and Gabe

I think that's the idea: Starfleet personnel should get uneasy with holograms taking so much into their hands. After all, cybernetics are still banned because of the Eugenics Wars; holograms could symbolize the same threat.

[Balok]

No organism wishes to create its successor, so even if holograms became more widespread, there would be restrictions on what capabilities they could have.

Since they can be programmed, they can be reprogrammed. Therefore it's dangerous to put them in long term command situations, or to leave them in control of classified data.

We don't have a lot of biological enhancement because that's not the "Star Trek" feel.

Similarly, there's not a lot of androids or holograms. They could certainly have studied the equipment left behind by "The Old Ones" and learned how to build androids easily. Yet they did not. It seems reasonable to assume that most of the same problems that apply to an android would apply to a hologram.

Each series has at least one "one off" character (TNG had two: Data and Worf.). If one, why not many? The answer is, because one is interesting, whereas many implies social changes that move us away from Roddenberry's notion of Trek as a humanocentric universe. Notice: we've had a black captain, and a female captain -- but never an alien captain. Part of the reason is marketing: how do you sell a series where humans take orders from non-humans, but part of it is, that's Roddenberry's vision.

Just some semi-coherent pennies...

[verbena76]

Actually, there is a two part Voyager novel series set immediately after the ship's return to the Alpha Quadrant that touches upon a Holographic revolution. Homecoming and The Farther Shore by Christie Golden.

[hellsgate]

I'd use the O.R.A.C.L.E. holographic auxiliary system from here:

http://www11.brinkster.com/stfanfiction/LONAF.html

or the original site, the O.R.A.C.L.E. System came from,

"Star Trek: The Long, Cold Night"

http://www.pbem-portal.com/trek/tlcn/Index.html