Of Giant Spiders

[AslanC]

Simple question, would it be feasable or at least interesting if Morlob (Shelob in my 4th Age game) could use magics to take on other guises other than just giant spider?

Don't just say no or yes, but discuss.

[mcb]

I would say no, but it is your game and if you want to feel free. The reason I would say no is that there is really no support in Tolkien's work for a shape-shifting spider. The only shape shifter I think Tolkien talks about is Beorn in the Hobbit with the abbility to go from human to bear, an Sauron in the simarillion changes from human form to the shape of a wolf, and a vampire on one or more occasions.

mcb

[Camdin]

Although Tolkien never spoke of any shapechanging spiders, the core rulebook explicitly states that any intelligent creature can learn spells.

The Spawn of Shelob are not only intelligent, but they are also capable of speech. One could, theoretically, advance in the Magician order. Once that door is open, she can learn the Mastery of Shapes spell.

As a Narrator, I would rule that her spells would be more expensive to learn because she would be required to spend the extra spell pick cost to remove the need to use gestures.

However, with enough advancements she could make the Mastery of Shapes spell an Ability, which would allow her to perform it at will without Weariness tests.

[AslanC]

Interesting idea.

Just to clear up though, this isn't the spawn of Shelob, this is Shelob, changing her name to Morlob.

Thanks for the help.

[Phantom]

I believe that there is a legendary Japanese creature called the Kumo (or something like it) that was a, in natural form, a giant spider. But, when met it usually was in the form of an old man. Then again it could be from an RPG, I can't remember. Either way it does lead presidence, non-tolkien as it is.

[Camdin]

Originally posted by AslanC
Just to clear up though, this isn't the spawn of Shelob, this is Shelob, changing her name to Morlob.

D'OH! I missed that. lol

[Jason Durall]

Originally posted by AslanC
Simple question, would it be feasable or at least interesting if Morlob (Shelob in my 4th Age game) could use magics to take on other guises other than just giant spider?

Don't just say no or yes, but discuss.

Personally, I wouln't do it.

Tolkien's evil creatures are monstrous because of their corruption, and they can't really hide it or mask it.

The main question I would ask is why she would want to take on another guise? Has her agenda changed significantly? Is there a reason she couldn't use a human (or other) agent to achieve these goals?

What guises are you talking about, as well? Demon spider is pretty powerful as it is - is there some other fell form you think she should be able to assume? (Dragon-spider? Human form?)

Also, from a personal preference, I'd shy away from having her transform. Too much like that spider-queen god from D&D. Lolth?

[AslanC]

The purpose of this is to have had her start a cult of Spider- worship in Arnor, thereby turning the Steward (and his generals) against Gondor.

Of course the players have to expose this and almost deafeat her, forcing her to take back on spider form and flee (via magics of course) and thereby push the confrontation to Mordor.

Not everyone's cup of tea I am sure.

[Jason Durall]

Originally posted by AslanC
The purpose of this is to have had her start a cult of Spider- worship in Arnor, thereby turning the Steward (and his generals) against Gondor.

Of course the players have to expose this and almost deafeat her, forcing her to take back on spider form and flee (via magics of course) and thereby push the confrontation to Mordor.

Not everyone's cup of tea I am sure.

Is there a reason that she couldn't do this through the use of loyal half-Orc cultists, or even former heroes who went up against her and were overcome with her evil?

[AslanC]

Originally posted by Jason Durall
Is there a reason that she couldn't do this through the use of loyal half-Orc cultists, or even former heroes who went up against her and were overcome with her evil?

Half-orcs? Isn't that more of a D&D thing?

I also like the hands on aspect of it all, and that when the players reveal the true forum of Morlob, it allows for some of the corrupted to sort of "return to the light" as they see now they have been tricked.

[Jason Durall]

Originally posted by AslanC
Half-orcs? Isn't that more of a D&D thing?

I also like the hands on aspect of it all, and that when the players reveal the true forum of Morlob, it allows for some of the corrupted to sort of "return to the light" as they see now they have been tricked.

Tolkien described half-Orcs... the wicked Southron in Bree hanging out with Bill Ferny was one of them. Treebeard, Merry, and Pippin all commented on Saruman's breeding Orcs and Men to malicious purpose.

My suggestion with having an agent was in keeping with Tolkien's general theme of how every evildoer seems to have a henchmen who does their bidding.

Sauron was Morgoth's henchman. Saruman served Sauron. Grima Wormtongue served Saruman.

Sauron had other henchfolk, such as the Witch-king and the Mouth of Sauron - so a powerful evil being might continue this tradition and use an agent to go where they cannot.

[AslanC]

Interesting stuff and a good way of thinking.

So Herumor would have Saelon and Shelob as Lieutenants and perhaps a large Balrog like creature in the North pushing at the gathering hordes in Angmar.