I need a better bad.

[Sarge]

I just had an idea for how they could take out Earendil. First they recover the Silmaril from the sea. Since Herumor is most likely Black Numenorean, he ought to be able to gather a fleet of Corsairs of Umbar (also descended from Black Numenoreans). With the power of the recovered Silmaril, they can sail to the edge of the world and wait for Earendil to pass over them. Again using the Silmaril, they call up all the waves of the seas and pile them up into an enormous mountain of water that lifts the fleet up high enough to attack Earendil.

It's possible that Herumor could end up with two Silmarils if he could pull that off. If he found the third, he might have enough power to split Arda wide open. The PCs better make sure that doesn't happen.

I'd say that the Silmaril of air ought to be retrieved and returned to the skies at the end of the adventure. Permanently losing the evening star is too big a change in the world, IMO. Whether or not Earendil and his ship Vingilot still bear the jewel afterwards is up to you. Personally, I can think of worse ways to retire a PC than to make him or her the new evening star.

[AslanC]

Wow that is pretty Epic.

And cool too.

A mountain of water eh? Neat idea.

Still it might be a bit over the heads of the players if they get that far. I mean we are talking about primal forces here.

I need the threat of this kind of stuff, but if I were to carry through with it then things would be seriously on a high powered note.

Still it is worth thinking about.

Thanks for the thoughts

[AslanC]

Okay I am now thinking I might be over complicating things...

I mean here is my bad guy list.

From top to bottom...

Herumor (Mouth of Sauron)
|
Alatar (working with Herumor)
|
Shelob (made human) - Saelon - Carangul the Red

Should I eliminate the middle man and just make Alatar Herumor? Lose the whole Mouth of Sauron angle?

Or even go one step further and make Dolomir (who Herumor pretends to be) actually be Herumor, who has been corrupted in the East and taken on the mantle of Herumor for himself?

Should I include Alatar in this mess at all?

Shelob, Saelon and Carangul are all set piece villains, so not so bad... But I think I might be getting top-heavy.

Guidence?

[AslanC]

In an effort to cut down on threads, can the mods attach this thread to this one?

http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...&threadid=8790

If not possible, can all posters just move replies from here to there?

Thanks guys.

[Sarge]

Well, Aslan, if you think you'll want to run another campaign after this one, you might want to keep some bad guys in reserve for the next adventure.

I agree that the mountain of water and battle of Silmarils would be epic. That might be something to save for the end of a long-term campaign, when the PCs are ready to deal with some serious threats just before they go on to a well-earned retirement.

[AslanC]

Another campaign? LOL! I don't think so Tim

Seriously... that would be more than enough. I am having a hard enough time figuring out one.

No the more I think about it, the Mouth of sauron, while a nice idea, is too much.

I need to scale that back and just make it Alatar as Dolomir/Herumor.

Shelob and Saelon remain though, as Lieutenants and Carangul the Red as a Saurman type of uneasy ally for Herumor.

[TheDivineCynic]

You know if you want big bad you could always use Thuringwethil the messenger of Morgoth. She used to run around as a bat a lot, but nobody knows what happened to her.

Maybe Sauron's death woke her up & she is out doing evil things again. She is not quite a Sauron threat without a ring, but she is still a big threat & allows you to bring in a new name.