I need a better bad.

[AslanC]

After listening to what Mr. Durall had to say in my Giant Spiders thread and my own reckoning, I need a better 4th Age enemy that Shelob come Morlob.

She will make an excellent Lieutenant (transformed into human guise) and the whole stealing of the Silmaril will work when used along the mindset of forging a NEW ring of power (with the power of the Silmaril poured into it, laong with hate, etc...) but I need a good Enemy.

Help?

I man this guys (or gal) has to be on the level of Morgoth or Sauron... Not a Saruman or a Wormtounge...

Any thoughts gang?

[Sarge]

I don't think Tolkien described any other evil characters at the power level of Morgoth or Sauron. But a powerful villain such as the Mouth of Sauron, using the power of a Silmaril, might be able to overcome the power that keeps Morgoth himself in the Outer Darkness.

Gandalf himself would probably soil his robes at the thought of Morgoth's return.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by AslanC
I man this guys (or gal) has to be on the level of Morgoth or Sauron... Not a Saruman or a Wormtounge...

Any thoughts gang?

If you even remotely want to stick close to the canon, you're not going to have a creature at their level. It'll have to be something less powerful. Some good candidates would be either or both of the Blue Wizards, maybe a Balrog of some sort, or perhaps a similar but new creature that's been dormant for ages and is ready to come back...

[AslanC]

there is a proposed character from the begining of a 4th Age story Tolkien started (but quit after only a few pages).

I am going to read it over, but it might have what I need

[AslanC]

Okay the 4th Age story fragment "The New Shadow" speaks of three specific characters...

Borlas - Possible grandson or great-grandson of Beregond. He is an older man when the story starts, at the end of his career. He is the one who detects the "Satanic Cult" that is inspiring "Orcish" behaiviour in some of Gondor's youth.

Saelon - Freind of Borlas' son and the one who invites him to a secret meeting of the cult, possibly to kill him.

Herumor (Quenya for "Dark Lord") - Supposedly the leader of the cult, but we have no more details on him, and I assume Herumor is a psedonom, and he would be someone the heroes would encounter and not realize is also the new Enemy. Sort of a Senator Palpatine/Darth Sidius sort of thing.

Now I can use this stuff.

Now since the Satanic Cult is possibly Morgoth/Melkor worship, it might tie in nicely to have Herumor's goal be the rescue of the big M from the Outer Void where he was cast.

A Silmaril and a Ring of Power might just be the tickets for that kind of Mojo.

Using Shelob (transformed by magics as a human female of gothic beauty) he can spread the influence of the cult where ever he wants.

Men are so dumb when dealing with women

Okay those are my intial thoughts.

Comments? Ideas?

Suggestions?

[AslanC]

Oh I forgot, Borlas could be at Rivendell when the players arrive, trying to learn more about the cult and this Herumor.

Saelon would make an excellent Lieutenant, situation as an advisor to young King Darion (Eldarion to his mother's people). That way he could try and encourage the King to make poor choices that could lead to his overthrow.

With Shelob creating strike in Arnor, and Darion making bad choices in Gondor, the Reunited Kingdom becomes a non-player when the shite hits the fan. This would make an excellent way of neutralizing their armies, without risking valuable troops.

Could also provide and impertous for the Princes of Ithilien and Dol-Amroth to be the ones who are trying to warn of the New Shadow and such.

Sorry just got to typing out loud as it were.

[Sarge]

Earendil the Mariner still sails along the ramparts of the Timeless Void in his hallowed ship Vingilot, a silmaril bound to his brow, and guards against the return of Morgoth. The cultists are going to have to neutralize Earendil, the evening star, if they hope to return Morgoth to Middle Earth.

I'm not sure I'd want to make PCs a part of that battle, but the disappearance of the evening star could be an omen of Bad Days Ahead.

[AslanC]

Originally posted by Sarge
Earendil the Mariner still sails along the ramparts of the Timeless Void in his hallowed ship Vingilot, a silmaril bound to his brow, and guards against the return of Morgoth. The cultists are going to have to neutralize Earendil, the evening star, if they hope to return Morgoth to Middle Earth.

I'm not sure I'd want to make PCs a part of that battle, but the disappearance of the evening star could be an omen of Bad Days Ahead.

Now that is very very very interesting. I could really use it as a foreshadowing and stuff.

I just need to figure out what the Evening Star is first

On a side note Sarge, you are right up there with guys like Durall and Landmark on your obscure Tolkien knowledge

[ben hur]

Originally posted by AslanC
I just need to figure out what the Evening Star is first

I don't know what it is either. But a quick search on Google ('evening star astronomy') brought up a site saying this:

Evening star or morning star, planet that becomes visible in the western sky shortly after sunset or in the eastern sky shortly before sunrise. It can usually be seen in twilight, when it is too light for the true stars to be seen. Venus and Mercury are often seen as evening or morning stars. Other planets, especially Mars and Jupiter, may appear as evening or morning stars at certain points in their orbits.

No idea if that's the same thing at all.

[Sarge]

Hmm... I think I read somewhere that JRRT intended Earendil and his Silmaril to be his mythology's evening star, which we know is Venus. I could be mistaken.

If the details of Earendil aren't fresh in your mind, just skim the last chapter of The Silmarillion, The Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath.

I am sure that the Phial of Galadriel contained the light of Earendil's Silmaril. We all know how giant spiders and creatures of darkness respond to that.

[AslanC]

So we are all in agreement then, the evening Star is like our Venus. But in this case is an Elf (Arwen's grand-dad to be exact) with a Silmaril on his brow.

Now how would they take him out? That seems like a feat of epic level.

[AslanC]

Okay I just had a thought.

If the Mouth of Sauron's fate was never discerened... Couldn't he be my Herumor?

The Mouth was a sorceror and a Black Nuemenorian yes?

[AslanC]

Strange ideas hit me as I reread LOTR.

Imagine the Mouth of Sauron fled into the East.

There he bided his time and worked to hide himself and his loyal followers from King Elessar and the King Eldarion.

About 40 years ago, maybe longer, maybe less... King Eldarion sent an expedition into the east to learn the fate of the Blue Wizards. This expedition was lead by Dolomir (dusky-jewel), distant relation of Boromir and Faramir.

The expedition was beset by the Mouth and his loyal agents and those in the party who would not be corrupted by the sorceror were killed.

Using magics to appear as Dolomir, Herumor (the mouth) has returned to Minas Tirith (with his loyal men), bringing news of the quest.

He has returned with only one of the Blue Wizards, one killed by the other when he proved to be uncorrupptable.

'What success they [Alatar and Pallando] had I do not know; but I fear they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were the founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.' (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No. 211).

Alatar would be the one returning. I like that name better than Pallando. Regardless, in return for the success of the mission Dolomir (Herumor) requests that he take his men, along with Alatar and head into Mordor to "cleanse" it once and for all. The goal to be bringing it in as the third jewel of the reunited Kingdom. Arnor to the north, Gondor in the south and Mordor to the east. In return for this act, he will be made Steward of Mordor. Of course Saelon, one of King Daerion's advisors would support this idea.

This, of course, is all designed as a way for Herumor to work in peace. Without the prying eyes of the King on him while he and Alatar seek to release Morgoth from the void.

Not everything is as they planned. At some point someone would arrive from the East with proof that Dolomir is dead. Perhaps one of his men or an Easterner who was a pupil of Pallando. Seeing the corruption taking foot in Gondor, he (or she) would seek out the PCs to enlist their aide in stopping Herumor.

Wow, that was longer than I expected.

So does it sound crazy?

[Sarge]

We should all be so crazy.

If Herumor/Mouth is impersonating Dolomir, that opens up possibilities for portents. Surely someone who knew Dolomir before the expedition would wonder why he didn't seem quite the same after his return. Is it possible that one or two of your PCs knew him way back when? Maybe you could run a kind of flashback scene to establish who he was and create a relationship with one of the older characters in the group.

[AslanC]

Good thinking Sarge, my only problem is timing. Unless I only have him dispatched like 15 years ago or so.

Something more recent.