Help with a 4th Age Setting

[TheDivineCynic]

It is my newbie butt again. I was wanting to get some help & feedback from the board about a setting I want to run LOTR in.

See the idea I had is about 200-300 years into the Fourth Age. All of the Fellowship are either gone or dead & one of Aragorn's descendents rules in Gondor.

Some thoughts I had......

There are some elves around, but the Noldor are gone. There are now only 3havens of elves, Rivendell (ran by 1 or both of Elrond's sons), Mirkwood, & the Grey Havens. The Elves who stay behind do so because either they arte still tied to ME or they feel they can't abandon ME with the new threat on the horizon.

As to Hobbits, they still Hobbits, but the Shire has expanded a bit & due to the Scrourging a tradition of fairly well trained Shiriffs is in place. Also, as a strange effect, the Hobbits of Bree tend to be more likely to mad & go wandering ,while the Shire-folk tend to do this less.

Dwarves haven't changed all that much, but tensions between the dwarves & elves have diminished a bit with the example of Legolas & Gimli.

Men move to take more of ME as their own & new settlements are everywhere. Rohan is doing well; however the current ruler of Gondor is a bit weak & the kingdom suffers for it.

Magicians as whole are a bit less rare among men. What has happened is that certain individuals have gathered what scraps of lore they could together & form orders without the Istari around. Basically they function along the lines of the spell specialities listed in the core book; however there still aren't that many magicians & wizards running around.

Lastly the big nasties of the setting are a couple. Firstly Alatar has come back, without Pallando, & is corrupted. However he was not corrupted by Sauron, but somehow by Melkor himself. Also, a powerful orc warlord has taken up residence in Mordor & with the aide of other fell things is threatening the West again. Lastly, something claiming to be the Witch-King returned has taken over Moria & organized the orcs & godlins of there & the Misty Mountains.

Oh by the way, Alatar has set up shop in Isengard.

Well, any th0ughts or suggestions?

[ben hur]

Some thoughts on your thoughts...

Another Elf-haven would be in Ithil, unless you decide that the colony that Legolas starts there in the Fourth Age fizzles out.

I like the Loopy Hobbits From Bree and Reticent Shire effect you are planning on.

How do you think Alatar has been corrupted by Melkor? Possibly he studied (too deeply) a cult that Melkor started in the East that worships him?

Also, keep in mind the Ent-watch on Isengard. It won't be easy for Alatar to take control of Isengard again, but I can see two quite interesting ways of achieving this:

A) Alatar devises an ingenius plan to neutralize the Ents that are keeping watch on Isengard (dark magic, tree-felling project, foul water-poisoning, what have you).

B) The King of Gondor, who you said is weak, is convinced by Alatar that the Wizard would make a powerful ally if given Isengard (exactly as Saruman did to gain control of Isengard, but at that time it was more the weakness of Gondor rather than the weakness of the King that allowed this).

I also like the idea of magician orders that are focused on certain aspects. This could become really interesting, especially if Pallando returned (uncorrupted), and some magicians join Alatar while some join Pallando.

One additional point you might want to consider (if you haven't already), is firebrands in Harad igniting rebellion in the Southron provinces. This would mean Gondor is being hit from the East (Orc Warlord in Mordor), South (Haradrim Rebellion), West (Alatar and Company), and the North ('Witch-king' Copy-cat with Armies).

All and all, a very solid outlook for a new worldwide war. Keep it up!

[AslanC]

Very interesting stuff from both of you

Heck I might steal some of it for my 4th Age game

[TheDivineCynic]

Thanks for the feedback so quickly.....

AslanC,
Thanks......go ahead & steal. I am going to steal some of the stuf you put up for the 4th Age. Particularly the idea of the big bad guy being disguised as a wizard in black. I haven't decided on what Alatar is usiong for a name yet, but he is known "so & so the Black" & heads a secret order of Wizards that specialize in Sorcery.

I am still reading your thread I will let you know what I will use.

ben hur,

wow, I really like your ideas.

I forgot about Legolas' colony. Yeah that would probably be asnother haven. As to Lorien, after Galadriel & Celeborn go West I can't picture it remaining a haven. I haven't decided what to do with it yet though.

As to Alatar,
Yeah I was picturing a cult of Melkor from the East doing or like Saruman he delved too deeply into the workings of the Enemy & started focusing on the Sauron/Melkor connection & was in turn corrupt through his studies & contact with the remaining essence of Melkor in ME.

As to Isengard, I had thought of the Entwatch & figured on option Number 2 on how he got in there. I hadn't decided in I want a new Wormtongue or not.

I hadn't thought Harad though...that is a good idea.

As to Pallando, I was thinking about maybe having him in a somewhat Gandalf like role, maybe, & forming a new Council of the White with Elrond's sons & others. He would prolly be under an assumed name but still wearing the blue.

[AslanC]

Originally posted by TheDivineCynic
Thanks......go ahead & steal. I am going to steal some of the stuf you put up for the 4th Age. Particularly the idea of the big bad guy being disguised as a wizard in black. I haven't decided on what Alatar is usiong for a name yet, but he is known "so & so the Black" & heads a secret order of Wizards that specialize in Sorcery.

Don't forget in mine the Sorceror in Black (Wirilome) is actually not the evil at all, but Carangul the Red and Alatar the Blue (using the name Herumor) are.

I am still reading your thread I will let you know what I will use.

Feel free to use it all, as it was a cooperative effort of many people here on the boards

[TheDivineCynic]

Well Aslan you're right I am changing what you're doing with Alatar.

Some more stuff,

Aslan you're timeline rawks I am stealing it. However with some changes. Firstly, when the dwarves get to Moria they take it & establish a kingdom & do the mining thing again. However, when they actaully arrive at a Moria they find it abandoned. All the orcs & such apparently fled.

What the dwarves didn't know is that an evil nasty called most of the orcs (from Moria) to the Misty Mountains to bide their time & avoid Beorn there too. Later the orc using passages the dwarves hadn't dicovered yet snuck back into Moria & retook the place.

Now you may wonder how they pulled this off? With the help of the big nasty. Who is the big nasty (that claims to be the Witch King returned) you may ask. None other then Thuringwethil the Messenger of Melkor.

Basically, she hid & slept after the defeat of Melkor & was awakened when Sauron died.

Also, I am going with some of the stuff from the New Shadow (ie Tolkien's unfinished 4th Age work) & having Alatar going as Herumor & starting lots of nice little cults in Gondor.

There more I think about the setting the more I get the idea that there would be a period mainly through Elessar's & Eldarion's reign of lots of good things happening. Evil lies low in this period & good has some strong gains in this time. However setbacks start happening & good starts losing ground.

A few other things,
As to the Orc Cheiftain in Mordor. Well, I want him to have some backing & I was thinking it might be somewhat cool if the Mouth Of Sauron got a hold of a minor ring of power (ie to give the longevity) & was backing this guy.

Also, what happened to Saruman & Wormtongue after ROTK? Did Tolkien ever say? I could see them brewing some trouble too.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by TheDivineCynic
Also, what happened to Saruman & Wormtongue after ROTK? Did Tolkien ever say? I could see them brewing some trouble too.

Wormtongue slits Saruman's throat then is killed himself. I guess you could have Saruman 'reborn' like Gandalf was, but I'm not sure that the powers that be would resurrect his sorry butt.

Gríma stays dead.

[AslanC]

Grima could be revived with Necromancy

Hey just on a side note, shouldn't this thread be in the non-rules forum?

[TheDivineCynic]

Prolly should & I am going to move it. Been lazy sorry.

I actually posted it here before I looked at the other forum sorry.

[AslanC]

No need to apologize at all dude, it is an honest mistake (lord knows we have all made them)

I find your ideas with the Vampire messenger of Melkor to be very very interesting.

Any other thoughts?

[Manveru]

The field is pretty open on this topic. Galadriel left for the West without Celeborn, who stayed behind with the sons of Elrond in Imladris. I don't know how long those three stayed in ME though.