Civilians vs. Enlisted

[Phoenix]

Now I know that a similar conversation on this subject is around here...someplace... but I wanted some feedback on my own answer to the problem of Civilians having more DP than Enlisted Starfleet personnal.
I simply removed the Civilian Overlays (converted them into 9 DP Civilian Training), there-by making them based on 55 DP (50 DP Template plus 5 DP Early Life History) vs. the Enlisted bases of 99 (Template 50 DP, ELH 5 DP, Enlisted Overlay 36 DP, and Academy Life History 8 DP).
A note on the point totals, I don't count Tours of Duty in the equation, I allow players to start right out of the Academy.
Just a thought on the matter, let me know what you think.

Phoenix...

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

[calguard66]

The civilian packages state that they assume a "career" at the step where the enlisted package gives skills for a single tour.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Phoenix]

Wouldn't you think that joining Starfleet (Enlisted of Officer) is a career?

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

[SIR SIG]

Over in the Questions/Answers area!

Why should enlisted have more points?
Atleast the basic stats should be balanced.

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'...The Borg have stopped at deck 10...'
'...Deflector Control, no vital systems...'

Not a vital system! What the heck do you think stops the ship going 'poof' every time it goes to warp?

- ST:First Contact; Lt Hawk

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by SIR SIG:
Why should enlisted have more points?

All in all, enlisted only start with more DP due to the intensified level of training, Civilians can still get the same DP total, it's just not as rapidly or as efficiently as the Academy's training, also civilians can always go back into job training at a later date. Starfleet personnal can't just deside to return to SFA, to change occupations, I'd allow a cross-training, but not a new Overlay.
Does this clear things up a little...

Phoenix...

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

[calguard66]

It seems quite clear from the rule books that the civilian overlay assumes a somewhat lengthy career, perhaps ten years or more, rather than a single "tour".

The enlisted overlay assumes a single tour of only a few years length. To make an enlisted character with equivelent experience, give him two or three secondary tours.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Owen E Oulton]

You're leaving out a major consideration when comparing the enlisted personnel and civilians character generation systems. Neither is really aimed at creating a 18-19 year old. They're both aimed at creating a character with several years of experience under their belts.

Let's do a proper comparison, using someone of, say, 23 years of age, same as a Starfleet ensign fresh out of Academy...

Ensign:
Template = 50
Early Life History = 5
Academy Life = 8
Overlay = 54
Cadet Cruise = 4
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Total = 121

Enlisted:
Template = 50
Early Life History = 5
Enlisted Training Programme = 3
Overlay = 25
One Tour of Duty = 10
Advanced Training Programme = 8
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Total = 105

Civilian:
Template = 50
Early Life History = 5
Overlay = 36
5 years experience = 5
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Total = 96

For every year of subsequent history, a civilian gets 1 point, while enlisted characters get 5 points for every 4 years and officers get 5 for every 2-7 (average 4.5) years. Enlisted characters also can opt to attend Advanced Training Programmes, while civilians cannot. I usually allow characters to go to one school for each Tour completed. Even without this, the enlisted character is still 93 points, only 1 Skill level less than the civilian. (None of this takes ICON's wonkly Specialisation ablation into account.)

[Phoenix]

Which is accounted for in the passage of time, the enlisted overlay takes one year of intense training to complete, the civilian overlay takes, from what I can tell, no time what so ever, it just happens. A civilian at the same age (lets say 18 for a human) would have the points from his template, early life history, his overlay, and possibly previous experience, where an enlisted person would have his template, early life history, and possibly previous experience. What I'm doing with this is giving civilians time spent "mini-" overlays, by allowing them to pickup multiple Civilian Trainings and Civilian Professional Careers. I'm not trying to remove the abilities of the civilians, just make them more (forgive the next word) realistic.
I'm going to try to predict the next question here, Multiple "Civilian Trainings and Civilian Professional Careers" this doesn't mean the civilian keep returning to school (or whatever), what this represents is a continuing expansion of knowledge through regularly performing the same job, or picking up a new or side job. To date I haven't seen a Starfleet person moonlight...
I hope this is starting to make more sense as I reply...Personally I'm still trying to work all the bugs out my self, and your questions are helping me out considerably.

Phoenix...

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon