Master & Commander

[Evan van Eyk]

But I thought it was a rank between "Lieutenant" and "Post Captain" reserved for COs of Sloops in the british Navy.

[qerlin]

Nope. Don's got it right. There were only middies, lieutenants, captains, post captains/commodores, and admirals, at this time. It was possible on a merchantman to have a master that was not the commander/captain -- if the owner was aboard, he was master of the vessel, while the captain still commanded. Rarely happened, but it's a nice bit of naval arcana.

The current rank structures were a early to mid-19th century development. Often one was a "lieutenant and commander" of a ship -- you can guess what that rank became. The current rank of commander (and I may be mistaken; can't find it in my sources at home) is an American tradition that came about as a field commission in the early 19th C. Although the crew would refer to them as captain, they had not been approved to the post officially, hence was the "commander" in dispatches and letters.

Saw the movie today: bloody brilliant. That first combat scene was agonizing. The acting was grand, the dialogue period and authentic, and the film caught the bits of whimsy, kindness, and other emotion the books did. HMS Rose did sterling service as Surprise.

And in the movie, they did nothing that was against regulations of the time. Attacking a vessel, so long as your true colours were showning before the first shot was perectly legal. During the boarding action, no one requested quarter, so none was required to be given.

Anyone thinkng about seeing it...go! One of the best of the year, IMO.

[Balok]

I enjoyed this movie as a movie by itself, because I have not read any of the books on which it is based. A very good story, that kept my attention throughout. I have the "Watch Rule" for movies: if I look at my watch, then the movie didn't hold my attention well enough. This movie kept my nicely away from my watch. Crowe was believable, and the byplay between him and the doctor was well scripted and acted. The scene with the doctor on the island ... those who have seen it know which scene ... was chilling.

I'm a little unclear on when anyone shot at men who had surrendered. Perhaps I missed something? Trickery was going on at various times, but I don't recall seeing this...

[Evan van Eyk]

Well I just got home from the movies and have to say Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World is a great motion picture. While it really has not too much in common with the novels it clearly portrait sailing the seas how it was done in that time. With the exception of few details everything was historically right and I recognized many things I read in books, although some nautical terms were lost in the translation into German. What I especially liked was the violence. Yep, you read correctly, me saying I liked violence. I liked it because it was not unnecessarily used, but in the exact right dosis to also depict the cruelness and the danger of that sort of combat, which went into direct contrast to e.g. the peaceful exploration of the islands. And it was not used so exceedingly that you got the impression the director wanted to break the record for the tons of artificial blood used in a movie. It was the right dosis to give the audience an glance of how combat was at that time ( and most probably still is ) without being disgusting.
I also liked Crowe's performance and the doctor's. Both played believable characters and really showed emotion, much more than in the novel, I came to like them. The conlfict between the two was convincing as was their friendship.
However the secret stars of the movie were the ships themselves. Wonderfully displayed and really great.
Overall a very good movie, which I hope to see more of - after all there is a load of books left.

[REG]

I have just watched Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World today, and I must say it is a good movie (one step below "pretty good," one step above "decent," two steps above "average").

It's definitely worth the matinee ticket price, and I may acquire the DVD as soon as it hits Tower Video. With that, I will have two Russell Crowe films.

The portrayal is nearly authentic, and you really can't tell which is real and which is added CG effect. I must admit, I watched the movie with no prior knowledge of sailing ship life, and I am surprised they allow youngsters onboard, especially those learning to be officers (no doubt they are sons of gentries). I thought it was going to be some heroic epic tale along the same line as Crowe's previous film, but this film portrayal is more a cross between reality documentary and war story told by veteran mariners.

No doubt, I'm in a mood to pick up the novels, and perhaps along the way, any naval-related game products.

BTW, is it me or will we there be a sequel to this film? I'm curious because there haven't been a sequel to films that Russell Crowe starred in.

P.S. Why is Pippin helming the ship?

[Ramage]

BTW, is it me or will we there be a sequel to this film? I'm curious because there haven't been a sequel to films that Russell Crowe starred in.

P.S. Why is Pippin helming the ship? [/B]

Well, the answer to the first is "Probably, depends on sales, but likely".

The answer to the second is "I'll never figure it out", especially as the character from the books he is supposed to represent is a large man who is a bare-knuckle boxing champ...

[Scottomir]

I, too, enjoyed Master and Commander when I saw it yesterday. It is the best naval warfare film since Damn the Defiant many years ago. I was impressed by the attention to historical detail (the pre-Darwin Galapagos scene not withstanding). I was a little skeptical of the closing fight -- I know a smaller warship would sometimes gain the Wind Gauge, cross the T, and hole or unsail a larger vessel (and thereby force a surrender), but was anybody else scratching their head at the tactic of a smaller crew carrying a larger prize by a boarding action?

Now I have a question for those who have read the books. My favorite character was wee Mr. Blakeney. Is he in the books, and if so how old is he supposed to be? I knew that children sometimes as young as 12 were brought aboard as cabin boys, but did O'Brien ever identify the regulations for how old you had to be to become a midshipman? Based on the Hornblower series, I thought it was late teens.

P.S. I got a kick out of Pippin at the helm, too. When they got lost in the fog, I kept joking to my friend, "Hey, why doesn't he just looking into the palantir?"

[Evan van Eyk]

As far as I know there is actually no restriction on age. At the early 19th century - especially because of the long war going on - it became common to drop the age even down to eleven, although I am not sure how far that is speculation of the author ( Germany's top Navy-Historian ) whose books I read.
However in Far Side of the World I came not across a Mr. Blakeney, but I may have missed that. I only seem to remember the midshipman who died at the end.

[Joe Dizzy]

Saw it. Liked it.

Wasn't blown away by it, but the movie did capture the kind of atmosphere I hoped a pre-TOS game/show would have. In that regard the movie was very helpful as it gave me a great number of ideas to use in my trek-game.

I felt that it was a very convincing representation of what serving on such a ship is/was like. The only reason why the movie didn't work for me as good as it might have, was that the characters seemed secondary. The movie wasn't so much about the crew or even the hunt for the Acheron, but about life onboard the Surprise.

If you're interested in naval warfare etc., you should definitely see this movie.
If you're more interested in a good adventure movie at sea.. go see Pirates of the Carribean.

Joe

[T'lara]

Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
Well I found it especially boring, though and I hope the movie makes up for that. Would be the first time a movie is better than the book.

Try reading Forrest Gump *shivers* the movie was better and more exciting than the Book it was based on.

[Sea Tyger]

I just saw the movie after picking up from Suncoast (preordered ). That was just bloody amazing!

It's movies like this that make me miss the sea. It doesn't matter that my ship was steel and steam, the call of the sea is still the same.

[REG]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm hoping there will be a sequel. If that's the case, it will be Russell Crowe's first repeat performance (AFAIK, he only do single films).

[Tas II]

I loved this film when I saw it at the cinema. As soon as money allows (me being a poorly student at the moment), I am off to get the 2-disc special edition.

I know there are differences between the book and the film. There always will be. Look at the LOTR trilogy. No Tom Bombadil, No Barrow Wights, Arwen finding Our Heroes before they reach Rivendell etc etc etc. Some stuff just wont sell on film. Brits as the good guys, and Yanks as the baddies? Never work for Hollywood, would it?

As to the age of Mr Blakeney, I'll quote a review of the film I saw on Amazon.co.uk "(A boy) became a man very quickly in the 19th Century". I dont think there was an age limit for middies but it had to do with passing exams on navigation, ship-handling and naval warfare I think.

Cheers

Tas

[Imagus]

Originally posted by qerlin
Nope. Don's got it right. There were only middies, lieutenants, captains, post captains/commodores, and admirals, at this time. It was possible on a merchantman to have a master that was not the commander/captain -- if the owner was aboard, he was master of the vessel, while the captain still commanded. Rarely happened, but it's a nice bit of naval arcana.

Sorry folks, but I've got to disagree. Don's got the origin right, but it was an actual rank in the Royal Navy.

To quote Peter Goodwin (Men o'War) "the joint title of Master and Commander had been introduced in the late 17th century in order to provide an established rank for officers given command of vessels below the sixth-rate status." This was to reflect the fact on smaller vessels, the Commander (highest ranking commission officer) was also the Master, the senior Warrant Officer on larger vessels responsible for navigation and all aspects of sailing the vessel. The Master and Commander rank was officially superceded in 1794 by the rank of Commander, as most smaller vessels were now carrying separate Masters. Since Master and Commander is set several years after this date, I suspect the Sophie's command structure was somewhat outdated. Note that Aubrey had the rank of Post Captain on the Surprise in Far Side of the World.

There were no officers carrying the rank of Captain in Nelson's navy - the title was used for the commander of any vessel of any size. The rank of Post Captain was held by any commissioned commander of a Sixth Rate or above.

[Imagus]

I loved this movie, and having just read Master and Commander the book, I found it worked perfectly well (I had a lot of fun spotting the bits from the first book). It really gives an idea of the noise and action in a naval battle, and works especially well on the big screen. One reviewer says the DVD is the perfect excuse to buy a projection TV!

Far outdoes Hornblower anyway...

As I understand it , the change in nationality of the Acheron (?) was primarily to cut down on exposition. Few modern Americans (present company accepted) are aware that the USA sided with Napoleon during the Wars (it was only 3 decades after the War of Independence), and the director thought half an hour of explanation would have lowered the tension a little. It really made little odds to the movie anyway.

Now making Aubrey a Bostonian would have been a bad move

Given the success of the film at the Oscars, I suspect we'll see a sequel

Incidentally, we all know Horatio Hornblower's career was based on that of Horatio Nelson - but a no-prize to the one that can name the model for Jack Aubrey...