Controlling Bloodthirsty Players

[StyroFoam Man]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[BouncyCaitian]

A few rules to exploit to make your trouble players think twice


A "sucking chest wound" is nature's way of telling you to slow down.

Anything you do can get you shot, including nothing.

If the enemy is in range, so are you.

If you are short of everything but the enemy, you are in a combat zone.

If you can't remember, the claymore is pointed at you.

If your attack is going well, you have walked into an ambush.

Incoming fire has the right of way.

It is easier to fight for principles than live up to them.

It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end.

It is easy to be brave from a safe distance.

Make it tough enough for the enemy to get in and you won't be able to get out.

Nature abhors a hero. For one thing, he violates the law of conservation of energy. For another, how can it be the survival of the fittest when the fittest keeps putting himself in situations where he is most likely to be creamed?

Never draw fire, it irritates everyone around you.

Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder.

Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than yourself.

Teamwork is essential, it gives them someone else to shoot at.

The easy way is always mined.

The enemy diversion you have been ignoring will be the main attack.

The enemy invariably attacks on two occasions: a) When you're ready for them, b) When you're not ready for them. (Murphy's Eigth Rule of combat)

Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammunition.

When a hammer is the only tool, every problem looks like a nail.

When hammering a nail, you will never hit your finger if you hold the hammer with both hands.

When you have secured an area, don't forget to tell the enemy.

Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire.

He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from the next freeway exit.

Law stands mute in the midst of arms.

Law, without force, is impotent.

Laws are dumb in the midst of arms.

Measure twice because you can cut only once.

Professionals are predictable, it's the amateurs that are dangerous.

The belief that enhanced understanding will necessarily stir a nation to action is one of mankind's oldest illusions.

Another thing I do is have at least one ruthless S.O.B. on the team who will off a character if they prove to be too unstable or draw too much of the bad kind of attention to the player group. Watch your average movie. Mercenaries and criminals will dispose of morons faster than it takes to turn an eraser pencil-side down because they are a liability. Klingons dont not suffer fools gladly either.

Make the player understand that thier is always a bigger shark out ther.

[Publius]

My general rule of thumb is that whatever the players do, the bad guys do in return. Put your phaser on Disintegrate? Their weapons are turned up as well. Sounds like this will only lead to a lot of dead PCs, so here is what you might want to try:

Maim them.

Explosive effects of phasers and disuptors on high settings can cause the character to take secondary damage, or just rule that a bad guys shot that would have hit the PC hit the wall next to them and the explosive sideeffects shredded their arms, legs, Johnson, whatnot. Try to finish out that adventure with one less limb sunshine.

Then, rather than making a new character, they have to start playing the maimed characters. Now, a lot of things like limbs are relatively easy to replace with Federation Medical tech, but how many times? After the second time they are given cloned limbs, give them a spiel about "rejection syndrome" that will require them to have to use bionic replacements instead. Nothing in the various shows precludes this and it will make them aware that their actions have consequences.

Ah, but it gets worse. Make the bionic replacements fail on a regular basis, only allow it to be an advantage for them when it suits you as a GM, the rest of the time it is a hinderance (especially socially, as most NPCs start treating them like Borg wannabes and they have massive social penalties, they are denied promotions when the other PCs rise in ranks etc.). If the PC says that the bionic limbs should let them do superior things, jumping two stories up etc. allow them to rewire the bionics to "bypass structural regulator protocols" which could do two things:

(1) get them into really hot water ("You jump, make a TN 20 check to land safely. Oops, now you fall back down 15m and break your normal leg"). Just because you can kick out a door doesn't mean that you should if their is hard vac behind it.

(2) strain something. Have the Med Officer who gives them these bionics explain that the "structural regulators" are there for a reason. Lift up that Klingon with your bionic arm? sure, then throw your back out (-10 to all physical tests) or better yet have him fall on top of you because you are off-balance. In the worrst case scenario have the limb rip free from it's socket ("You grab the Titanium Alloy door and heave once, twice, then feel a sharp snap and ripping sound as you fall down in agonizing pain. The arm however is still holding the door handle. Three feet away from your writhing body."). Ouch.

[Owen E Oulton]

Of course, often this is simply rewarding the player for the unwanted behaviour.

You want to really mess up someone playing an out-of-control, off-his-medication Klingon, don't give them any excuse for violence. If they kill someone or even push them around, have the NPCs forgive them - do the whole Ghandi/Jesus turn-the-other-cheek pacifist routine Remember how frustrated Kor got with the Organians?

[Tobian]

Hmm interesting.

It also leads me to the idea that if you have an NPC which can best your player at every turn BUT simply uses it to negate his attack (such as parrying his every move, with a huge armed combat bonus, or easilly dodging every hit) - as a passive (but not stupid!) protagonist, then the player will eventually catch on.

In all honesty the easiest way to deprive a one trick pony of his bloodlust is to always make him test against skills which he doesn't have. I have some players that have specifically built combat oriented characters. Great, because soldier classes don't usually build in System operations or sciences. Put them up against a challenge that can't be beaten off with a stick.

Or even use the Q metaphore. Cunning guile and cerebrality always work against omnipotent beings, but no matter how many points you put in to armed combat - you can't affect them that way!

Perhaps another way to look at it is a question of conditioning rather than obstructionism. Throw the player a bone - allow him to have a big fight, let it pander his ego (when we all know it's cause he min maxed his character and got lucky on his rolls) for his amazing skills at battle - and have that as a reward to not screwing up and being blood thisrsty al the time. if you don't give your bloodthirsty player an opportunity to unleash against things occasionally you'll only end up frustrating him and ultimatelly yourself too!

[Owen E Oulton]

"It also leads me to the idea that if you have an NPC which can best your player at every turn BUT simply uses it to negate his attack (such as parrying his every move, with a huge armed combat bonus, or easilly dodging every hit) - as a passive (but not stupid!) protagonist, then the player will eventually catch on."

Nah, that one's a counterproductive ploy. It merely reinforces his idea that he's created a great character if the GM has to create an übercharacter explicitly to humiliate him - he'll merely try harder and create bigger and badder combat-monsters.

"In all honesty the easiest way to deprive a one trick pony of his bloodlust is to always make him test against skills which he doesn't have. I have some players that have specifically built combat oriented characters. Great, because soldier classes don't usually build in System operations or sciences. Put them up against a challenge that can't be beaten off with a stick."

Perzackly.

[knarf]

Or you could give him a pet NPC. One player I had that was really combat happy was becoming a real nuisance, so I gave him a girlfriend. Now he had a roleplay opportunity that gave him something to do outside of combat without worrying about numbers. Especially if he makes a lot of enemies, that girlfriend can be adventure grist for ages to come. OR you might want to give him a kid. He might have to set a good example for the kid and of course you know how precocious kids are at that age.

[Publius]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
Of course, often this is simply rewarding the player for the unwanted behaviour.

I'm not sure if this is the response to my suggestion or it is in response to the "Kill" option. Either way though, my question is how?

I can understand the player using the "you're just picking on me" argument if you kill their character (or indeed maim them). Not of course if the basic rule is 'others do as you do' and the rolls are above board, but I can hear them whine about it anyway. How is killing the player rewarding them however? Because they can make a new combat monster? Because of the attention they get?

Maybe the answer to those is yes, which is why maiming/debilitating the offensive characters is better than killing them. The whole idea of maiming them is to make the Character live with their mistakes. Any replacement should be more of a burden than anything else. As a "mistake-caused" bionic rather than something like a VISOR for Geordi (i.e. something built into his concept) there are all sorts of negatives you need to apply as I indicated above. As I said, never let the bionic be a positive unless you, as a GM fiat, need it to be. A simple "no" will suffice if they ask whether their new bionic limb can do this or that and you don't want them to. Break downs and strains are similar in that they produce immediate penalties, especially for those things that the combat monster wants to do. Try phasering someone with a twitchy bionic hand, causing them at best to switch hands and take an off-hand penalty. Try hand to hand with a strained back, then you're really hosed. Really sneaky GMs will simply have NPC bad guys figure out a way to override the recalcitrant's bionics, using it against them.

Requiring the characters to make a roll on some esoteric skill, like appraise or indoctrinate, would however lead to a chorus of "but you're picking on me!" because I assume that the character is one of several characters playing out an adventure. The only way I can see this solution working is if the combat monster has little or no skills in areas the other PCs excel. If you are talking Sys Op only however, this is just one skill that can be increased easily (even at double points). If you are talking about requiring a Science skill, the combat-monster will simply wait for someone else in the party to do it for them.

[Tobian]

One of the things that i can never quite get a handle on in the damage system VS Startrek technology is that of death. So long as a player hasn't been vapoirised at any point I have allowed them to be brought back to life, resuccitated, whatever, because just as it can be done today people can be brought back from 'death' - given the limits of the technology of that era.

However one of the things that I did consider (and have yet to have a chance to implement) is a house rule whereby a player can be brought back BUT when he is, it was at the cost of something major. I.e. Pickard and his heart, Nog and his leg, B'riel and his brain

Combat monsters especially have a habit of flinging themselves into combat, and therefore are particularly vulnerable to this.

I was quite annoyed that in the Coda rules there isn't an edge / flaw combination pick for 'medical remedy' - because then it would be easy to drop that in as a background for PC's or NPC's - though of course there's nothing stopping me from doing it!

Something that isn't realistically shown in the 'bionic man' scenario is that (using that show as an example) - yes he can use his powered up arm / leg or whatever to rip open a door / bulkhead or jump 300 feet. Ok - but those mechanical limbs are connected to REAL body tissue - so you use your mechanical arm to tear open a metal bulkhead, but you are probably more likelly to rip open your shoulder bone with the shearing pressure. or you jump 3000 feet - yes the superior alloys of your metal leg withstand the fall, but your other leg and spine shatter on impact! The Borg can get round this problem by having their structural integrity field generators taking the strain, but Federation technology can't do that, so your super arm / leg / hand / foot can only be as good as the thing it's attatched too!

Owen. with regards to my combatant idea it came from a scenario where I had a character who had an Andorian character who had focused very heavilly on his combat skills, inlcluding the combat fighting styles from the Starfleet handbook - making him very leathal. i put him in an Andorian duel, but the thing that I realised, as a part of the combat system is that in situations like that it's who gets the first blow that can win. he got the first blow, and it spiraled rapidly that he won. However later I realised that if I'd used his superior combat skill to just parry all the time then that character would have gotten nowhere fast! it's a hard thing to get right when the skills in that area can be so divergent. A combatant in Coda can be quite lethal from first creation, whereas I am reminded of D&D matches at low level where you swing from rounds and rounds and keep missing each other it's much faster furious and fun, but it's ballanced by other players countering that with superior, more seasoned skill. if nothing else it teaches the player to use his brain rather than his braun and courage points to overcome the difficulties. - a player who is met by lethal hostile force on attacking random people is more likelly to plan what he is going to do, rather than just flagrantly assume he can kill it. One of the problems in Trek is the phaser it's self - how do you stop your players from simply killing your story ark bad guy outright with one hit on disrupt from a phaser!

[Publius]

Am I invisible?

[Tobian]

No, and i thought many of your points made alot of sense, and I was following on from some of them, it's just i was replying directly to a specific point Owen made in responce to one of my mails.

Sorry

[Publius]

No apologies necessary whatsoever. I'm sorry that I errantly gave you that impression Tobian, and looking at my post I can see how I did. The invisibility thing is a long standing frustration and certainly has nothing to do with you or your previous post specifically. I'm cranky because I'm grading finals and things aren't coming out very nice (a reason not an excuse), I assure you it was not my intention. Mea Culpa.

I actually wanted to post something about one of your suggestions that I have had a lot of success with: to give the players a fight scene that allows them to get all that stuff out of the way. Some of my adventures have a larger role in the combat area than others, just as some center on diplomatic or science-oriented activities. For those characters that do have a combat oriented character this works very well. I've actually been pretty lucky to have no truly 'bloodthirsty' Trek characters however so this may not work as well on the individual the original poster is discussing. Maybe combining this while making a deal with the player on the side ooc however might help e.g. "You play it Trek-style and I'll give your PC a chance to shine his combat ability."

Also, Knarf's suggestion of getting these players something that might become central to their character is a very good idea, but I don't think it would work with every Player. Knarf, your post indicates that you have had good luck with it, which I think is more a testament to your GMing and the ability of your player to grow beyond that quirk with a little help. I'm not certain it would be sufficient to derail a dedicated Hack-n-Slasher, but if the player is a good one it might allow them to refocus their habits. Nevertheless a good suggestion.

[Tobian]

I am in agreement with you there about adding dependiants to a character without prior consent, because it's not something you can exactly punish the character with easilly in a roleplaying context (if the character is 'naughty' like that it takes a few years to come back on him!)

However you can use them as a plot device, For example Worf's son, the child on 'Hero Worship' or a child under a disaster situation might be a good hook to reighn in a characters temper (or disgust you with their parenting skills! ) - while their actions and decisions might come back to haunt them (as well as the child!) it's basically just meant for one plot. And of course children are usually attracted to the largest (usually innapropriate combat oriented ) adults, in much the same way as cats are always attracted to people who are alergic to them!

Giving players a combat gets it out of the way, but then equally you should be cogniscent of non combat oriented players - what contribution do they make to the combat. For example a erchant or scientist may be woefully underskilled to fight at all, but there are other options you can go with; For example you could have someone operate a transporter to stalthilly deactivate the oponents weapons, or organise a little 'deal' to get some nausicans to ally themselves with you in the big showdown. It's not something I am very good at doing really, but keeping all of the players all hapy at once 9if impossible) is the ultimate goal, and allowing them to use their strengths in situations helps to validate their characers.

[knarf]

Another thing to consider is that combat oriented characters virtually always have some sort of excuse built into the character. For example, a Star Trek combat monster may be a security officer, giving them not combat opportunities to bring their profession into play. In my game, my combat character is a demon slayer, so whenever demons and other nasties come up, I expect his character to have some sort of information on it. For a Klingon character, which was mentioned in the original post, you might wish to ask him things about Klingons. Again, gives the character something useful to do when not in a fight.