Does your campaign play "John M. Ford Klingons" or the bland TNG depiction?

[byteknight]

I'm curious to see how current players depict Klingon PCs and NPCs in their respective campaigns.

In the good ol' days of the Eighties, we used the FASA-John M. Ford depiction of Klingon society. The klingon home world was Klinzha, the Klingon search for honour was the Khomerex-zha. Klingons also had nomenclatures like epetai, sutai into their names.

For those not familiar, John M. Ford is a sci-fi writer who wrote "The Final Reflection," one of the best Star Trek novels ever. He also wrote "How Much For Just The Planet?", another ST novel that was hilarious.

Anyways, he wrote the Klingon Supplement for FASA and it was highly received, even by non-players.

Of course, along came TNG and it depicted the Klingons somewhat differently, what some have called "caffeine-free Klingons." Call me a TOS diehard, but I agree.

I gather that most players today have never heard of the JMF version. ( I also suspect most players today are 99.99% playing their campaigns in the 24th Century, considering TOS old fashioned, but that is another thread).


Still, I would be curious to know if anybody still adheres to the old and much superior depiction of the Klingons (or "gonnies" as our old characters used to call them).


----------------
Byteknight
Toronto, Ontario

[D.S.McBride]

While I wouldn't call the TNG-era Klingons "bland", there was definitely a serious shift in perspective from the TOS angle.

The TOS Klingons were bastards and proud of it. My favourites from that time are Kor and Kang: two men who had fully accepted the idea that the universe is a rough place, with no room or time for ridiculous "negotiations" or attempts at "peaceful coexistance", which, of course, would simply result in one side taking over the other eventually anyway. Witness Azet'bur's statement, "The Federation is no more than a homo sapiens-only club" - with Human values and ideals being grafted on to every culture they come in contact with because, of course, it's good for them. Brings to mind another quote: "We are here to help the Vietnamese because inside every Gook there is an American, trying to get out." The Macarthur Plan in post-WWII Japan certainly shows this kind of mentality at work.

The TOS Klingons decided to sidestep all this. They were conquerors, plain and simple: if the universe didn't like what they were doing, then let the universe put a stop to it. No smiling face, no false colors - what you saw was what you got. As I've gotten older I've come to appreciate more and more Kor's discussion with Kirk: "I mean that we are similar as a species. Here we are, on a planet of sheep...two tigers, two predators...killers. And it is precisely that which makes us great." Strong words, and the man - and (most) of his TOS successors - had the guts to back them up.

The TNG Klingons had definitely undergone a major upheaval of some kind, one that had left many of them in a Who-are-We? mode. One of the few really good episodes from first season TNG was "Heart of Glory", which I thought very nicely portrayed two cultural orphans looking for the home they thought should have been there. I have a great deal of admiration for that unnamed Klingon captain sent out to bring Korus and Konmil back to justice; able to appreciate the roots that made his people what they are, but also acknowledging that times had changed and that he - and his people - must change with them. "Decaffinated" - well, yeah. I miss the no-apologies, no-regrets, this-is-the-way-the-universe-works-and-you-better-get-used-to-it approach that Kor and Kang had - and which Final Reflection did an amazing job of expanding on - and which is now largely gone, except with the Borg, and of course with them there's no individual "captains" or other representatives with which to have a conversation or meeting of minds with.

Our group, over the years, has tried to stick with more of a TOS-type interpretation, but with the understanding that the Klingons are trying something new - difficult, but they're tough dudes, and adaptable when the need is present, and they've shown they're up to the challenge.

[Jem'hadar]

While I like some of the rare portrayals of Klingons in TOS, I prefer the much more in-depth Klingon culture in TNG, DS9 and VOY.

Kang & Kor were both intelligent & ruthless. I liked those portrayals of TOS Klingons. But not the almost silly Klingons in the TOS Tribbles episode.

TOS had a very simplistic view of Klingons. They were murderous bad guys w/ no redeeming qualities. It was clear to anyone why they were a threat to the Federation. TNG's portrayal of Klingons is more complex. They are noble warriors. Aggressive & combative, but w/ honor & a sense of justice. TNG Klingons fight hard and party even harder. TNG-era Klingon culture seems to be a mix of Vikings & samurai. Klingons are dangerous, to be sure, but not w/o a system of rules & regulations.

While there were exceptions, a TNG-era Klingon would tell you how he felt about anything to your face & challenge you to disagree w/ him. TOS-era Klingons were more like Romulans: deceptive, manipulative & backstabbing. Like Romulans, they would smile as they handed you the cup filled w/ poisoned wine.

I'm not aware of the FASA Klingon portayals but I didn't find the Klingons in the Star Trek movies to be any different from TNG Klingons.

I'm more curious to see how Narrators deal w/ the physical differences b/t TOS and TNG Klingons. Neither the show nor the RPG publishers have ever answered the question (& probably never will). ENT shows the Klingons to be like 24th-C Klingons, but TOS has them looking different, even though technically TOS occurs after ENT. What theories do you have for the different appearances b/t TOS & TNG Klingons?

[REG]

BTW, the John M Ford "Final Reflection" is required reading for fans of All Things Klingons.

Personally, I do not find a clearly-defined segregated distinction between the portrayal of TOS Klingons (with added insight from the above book) and the TNG Klingons. Granted, the TOS Klingons are portrayed as the clear-cut villains of the Heroic crew of Enterprise, Starfleet, and the Federation. It emulated 1960's Cold War between the US and the Soviet Union.

But many years later, the superpower rivalry no longer existed, and the US and the Soviet Union have become allies, in which TNG portrayed an almost prophetic conclusion. So as allies and friends, we see them more and more in a different light, with an alien sense of honor and spiritualism (despite having killed their own gods and deifying one legendary Klingon) in their warrior-like society. Though they can be ruthless, they are also noble.

In my perspective, I prefer to blend all of those known distinctions (TOS, TNG, and "Final Reflection") to add color on this intriguing alien culture.

[Evan van Eyk]

Well I regard the change of actual culture simply as a change of politics. In TOS there was a different policy, most probably to overcome the very dangerous enemies, the UFP and the Romulans. However in the end it did not work out and when the klingons became allies of the UFP they were allowed to return to their roots and become the honourable people again. However there are still intrigues and the like although they tend to be directed more inward, e.g. concerning the succession of the High Council's leader.
While I prefer the TNG society, I have to confess I simply do know to few on TOS Klingons to actually say which is better. But I think TOS is more black and white in that matter, while TNG also explores the shades of grey present - which gives a more positive impression of the Klingons.
Conerning the appearance of the Klingons, I do not comment on it at all. In my TOS camapaign I depicted them TOS style, to keep up the atmosphere and in the other campaigns I keep with the TNG style, ignoring an explanation and simply suggesting that there is actually no change. If for some reason the characters still ask, I keep along with Worf: "Klingons don't speak about it."

[Ramage]

I saw STVI as the dividing line between "Old School" Klingons and the "Neo" Klingons of TNG and the rest. It is easy to assume that the Klingons of TOS and the early movies were as portrayed, but that due to the changes in STVI there is an internal coup that changes the culture dramatically. (This allows me to use John Ford's excellent book, one of the few Star Trek novels I actually enjoy, as the basis of "Old School" Klingon culture, right down to naming conventions.)

Then let stew for 85 years (roughly the time gap between TOS and TNG)...

The currently Klingons think of themselves as following "ancient traditions", but probably do so in the same way that most modern Wiccans draw on the writings of Gardner and his friends, which go all the way back to the early 1900s -- modern ideas that are wrapped in a filmy gauze of more ancient thoughts. In other words, the current Klingons think of themselves as preserving ancient ways, but they do so, at best, in an only half-understood manner padded out with a lot of wishful thinking.

Of course all of this is personal interpretation, but it works well for the games I have run in the past

[AslanC]

I for one love the Ford Klingons as they gave so much depth and culture to what was a simply black & white villain from the old show.

I am not a fan of the TNG Klingons as they to me are "Samurai-Biker-Vikings" "Honor, die in battle and kick a lot of ass".

But after years of trying I figured out that the Ford or TOS Klingons were like the Stalinists (very controlled and serious folk) but the worship of Khaless catches on after Praxis goes boom and the culture becomes much more passionate and what have you.

The two can exists, if you disregard the Qonos/Klinshai/Kling references.

But I prefer the Ford/TOS ones. They alway seemed more interesting to me. I always found it interesting how they became the TNG Romulans.

[REG]

"How they became"???

TOS Klingon were the first recurring Trek villains. Only when they slid over to our side, did the Romulans became more prominent as the villains in TNG.

BTW, I do like that honorable aspect of the Klingon, even though their concept is as alien as our own. Then again, even in our world culture, Eastern concept of honor is alien to the Westerners.

[Dan Stack]

I guess I'm "bland".

Strange to see myself described in that manner given the TNG portrayal of Klingons has inspired two of the best, "unbland" Trek characters I've seen in my some 15 years of Trek gaming.

[Owen E Oulton]

"Anyways, he wrote the Klingon Supplement for FASA and it was highly received, even by non-players."

Well, actually, no. His roommate (I don't remember if it was Guy McLimore, Greg Poehlein or David Tepool) at the time did, although he contributed the sidebar colour-text. He was working on the book at the same time as FASA began work on the first edition Klingon supplement, and they decided to collaborate - in essence, each work was partially derived from the other. There used to be an article on the Microtactix website detailing the history.

Frankly, I never cared much for either the FASA/Ford House structure and thought the "fusion" rationale was just plain silly. There was a lot of good, useable game material in the game books, but most of the background I ignored, just as I ignored both the background in the Romulan game book and the awful Diane Duane Romulan novels.

[Grimace]

Personally, I always thought the Klingon suppliment done by FASA was excellent. I hold strongly to the Klingons depicted in the book. With that, I can have human looking Klingons or the more nasty "bonehead" Klingons as seen in the movies and TNG+.

As with all game books, I take what I like, and leave what I don't. Just because it's in print doesn't mean I have to abide by everything in the book. All told, though, the feel of Klingons in the book are much more in line with how I've always viewed them.

Honestly, though, I think a lot of people's views on how Klingons should be portrayed depends entirely on what system they started gaming Star Trek in and what series they grew up watching.

[C5]

Given that I discovered Trek with TNG and that my first ST RPG was LUG, I think it's no surprise for anyone that I'm another bland-Klingons lover...

In fact, my favourite Klingons are the ones in TNG's first seasons - very violent, but with this very alien code of honour that codified their violence. This was an original race, only based on violence - like Vulcans were based on logic. Klingons in DS9 were less interesting to me, behaving much more like drunken bullies (of course this might have been tied to the decline of their Empire they came up with at the end of the series).
Though so far no Klingon appeared in my games, I intend to give them TNG behaviour - violent, ruthless, but with this honour thing making them able of sudden and sometime surprising friendships.

And of course, Klingons always had ridges - though I came up with an explanation for that in another thread (it involves a Douwd getting angry and punishing the Klingons by giving them a human look ).

To each their own I guess...

[byteknight]

"And though I had slain a thousand foes less one,
The thousandth knife found my liver;
The thousandth enemy said to me,
'Now you shall die,
Now none shall know.'
And the fool, looking down, believed this,
Not seeing, above his shoulders, the naked stars,
Each one remembering."

from _The Klingons_, by FASA

Now tell me that doesn't stir a chord within you!

If only we had Worf say this just once, rather than all the contrived "Klingon" ceremonies we saw him participate in on TNG.

Btw, there seems to be a number of John M. Ford Klingon sites that still carry the torch. Some play "klinzha" and surprisingly have made a board, as you can see in the following link:

http://www.chessvariants.com/link2.dir/klinzha.html

[WarriorKnight]

The Klingons in my game are a blend of both TOS & TNG Klingons.We don't have "fusions" but their just called half-breeds (just as Mr. Spock was referred to once in the TOS.)I use
1.the "house" chart from the FASA 1st ed. book.
2.Decipers Klingon Traditional Wpns. instead of a seprate listing for each wpn( Bat'leth,d'Ktag & Mek'leth) for Personal Cbt,Armed
3.Worf's explanation of the differance between TOS Klingons & the TNG Klingons

Though for the most part I draw from the TNG Klingons I don't discard FASA/TOS material.

[REG]

Originally posted by byteknight

If only we had Worf say this just once, rather than all the contrived "Klingon" ceremonies we saw him participate in on TNG.

You mean the belated Coming-of-Age ritual with the painstick? The bonding ceremony with Jeremy Aster? The courting ritual with Kehleyr? The Right of Vengeance with Duras? The Discommendation? The Arbitration of Succession between Gowron and Duras?