Does your campaign play "John M. Ford Klingons" or the bland TNG depiction?

[byteknight]

Originally posted by REG
You mean the belated Coming-of-Age ritual with the painstick? The bonding ceremony with Jeremy Aster? The courting ritual with Kehleyr? The Right of Vengeance with Duras? The Discommendation? The Arbitration of Succession between Gowron and Duras?

Why, yes.

Painsticks! Just the very term makes me want to laugh. Sounds like something children would say. Now agonizer sounds like something sinister, but painstick? Just makes me want to snicker.

"Oh, no, here come those terrible Klingons with their painsticks. Run for your lives!"

It's effect is that it turns the Klingons from a sophisticated and ruthless people to a bunch of guys who should wear loinclothes and carry broadswords.

"Uggh, me big bad Klingon, me play with painstick."

Also reminds me of Ash's "Boomstick" in Army of Darkness when he is talking down to the natives.

[Dan Stack]

Many cultures on Earth have had rites regarding enduring pain and self-injury.

[aelius]

In my campaign I use a combination of the two.
Culturaly they are a combination of the two, with shifting attitudes over time.
Physicaly I do use the fusions from Ford's book, I just assume that as the Fusions gained more political influence in the Empire the Imperial Klingons (The boneheaded ones for those who haven't read the book) reacted by crushing them out to preserve the purity of the Klingon species. The fusions were geneticaly resequenced back to the Klingon norm. This would explain the difference in appearance of Kang, Kor and Koloth from TOS and their appearances on DS9.
In my campaign, however, the fusions still exist in the Triangle on independant worlds.

[REG]

Originally posted by byteknight

Painsticks! Just the very term makes me want to laugh. Sounds like something children would say. Now agonizer sounds like something sinister, but painstick? Just makes me want to snicker.

I'm sure it may sound sinister in the original Klingon word, the way those cool Japanese words translate into a bland English term.

"Oh, no, here come those terrible Klingons with their painsticks. Run for your lives!"

It's effect is that it turns the Klingons from a sophisticated and ruthless people to a bunch of guys who should wear loinclothes and carry broadswords.

"Uggh, me big bad Klingon, me play with painstick."

Also reminds me of Ash's "Boomstick" in Army of Darkness when he is talking down to the natives.

Well, the painstick can't be worse than our own real-world stun baton (or gun) which is nothing more than a nonlethal weapon or a tool for torture. Then again, it is probably only used for that ritual, kinda like the fraternity/sorority paddle.

If a Klingon simply wants to kill, he'll take out his blade (if target is close quarter) or disruptor (if target is distant).

[byteknight]

Originally posted by Jem'hadar
While I like some of the rare portrayals of Klingons in TOS, I prefer the much more in-depth Klingon culture in TNG, DS9 and VOY.

I find it hard to differentiate between the TNG Klingons, the Nausicans (sp?) and the Kazon. They all seem to be cut out from the same cloth; loudmouth bullies with no subtlety.

The Ford Klingons are much more cunning, much more the ruthless strategists. They, after all, have "thought-admirals."

[BouncyCaitian]

For Those who are interested, GURPS Klingons is out. Adn the Klingons in here follow the Ruthless Bastard John M. Ford model. Of interest, the Klingon Empire see the Federation as more of an economic competitor than a mortal enemy

[Aldaron]

Actually, my campaign doesn't feature bland Klingons at all...

In order to do that I'd have to go with the "bad guys with long moustaches who look evil, act evil, eat babies and fart in airlocks" Klingons as portrayed in that 3 season embarrassment to Trek called "The Original Series" - the same one with the appalling acting, cheesy storylines, gung-ho, chest-thumping captains and absolutely woeful characterisations.

My Klingons are based on the interesting, in-depth, culturally-rich and diverse species as described in TNG and DS9.

*ducks back into foxhole, removes tongue from cheek and awaits incoming...*



(for anyone with no sense of humour, the above was a deliberately inflammatory joke! )

But I do like TNG better than TOS, both as a series and as far as their respective Klingons go...

[BouncyCaitian]

Originally posted by Aldaron
Actually, my campaign doesn't feature bland Klingons at all...

In order to do that I'd have to go with the "bad guys with long moustaches who look evil, act evil, eat babies and fart in airlocks" Klingons as portrayed in that 3 season embarrassment to Trek called "The Original Series" - the same one with the appalling acting, cheesy storylines, gung-ho, chest-thumping captains and absolutely woeful characterisations.

My Klingons are based on the interesting, in-depth, culturally-rich and diverse species as described in TNG and DS9.

*ducks back into foxhole, removes tongue from cheek and awaits incoming...*



(for anyone with no sense of humour, the above was a deliberately inflammatory joke! )

But I do like TNG better than TOS, both as a series and as far as their respective Klingons go...

OH I have not a problem with the klingons perse, jsut that too many aliens after them were too much like the klingons, thus making them less interesting. Having a pack of unrepentant bastards as enemies who revel in it makes for a more interesting enemy.

[prophetsteve]

My Klingons are based on the interesting, in-depth, culturally-rich and diverse species as described in TNG and DS9.

Basically I use both - Mostly its the TNG and DS9 view of Klingons, but I have used the FASA Klingons book to fill in the blanks when necessary. And the Fusion Klingons do hold a place in my personal Trek universe, official canon be d*mned

To be honest, Klingons in TOS didn't come across as anything other than a militaristic empire sworn to dominate the universe. Culturally we could only glean snippets usually from the dialogue. And all that was pretty weak.

Ford does a great job of tying in TOS and Motion Picture Klingons together and weaving in a culture that takes into account the various conflicting representations of Klingons. It was great for the time and I still use the Klingon FASA sourcebook for reference material to fill in blanks in Klingon history.

Still, TNG Klingons are cool in my book and I love their history. So they are a primarily source for my cultural information. Ford just fills in the blanks

[Dave]

A few nights ago I pulled out my FASA Klingon supplement. It was fun reading. I really couldn't decide though which Klingon model I liked better (Ford's or the bland TNG). I like both of them a lot, although both styles seem a little too monolithic for roleplaying Klingon characters (but perfect for classic bad guys and shoot'em up scenarios).

With all due respect to Owen, my favorite aspect of FASA's Klingon was the fusion idea. But there were other qualities that I thought were not very plausible at all, even contradictory. Regardless, John Ford's Klingon came about (as did FASA) at a time when there was very little trek material outside of novels and a couple manuals sold in the classifieds section of Starlog. Ford and FASA based their Klingons on fragmentary bits of info, when piecing together canon info was like searching for Aramaic text fragments of the New Testament. Taking this into account, Ford and the FASA crew made a solid contribution to the trek universe for that time.

When the Klingons first started showing up in TNG they looked very much the same to me, like cardboard cut-outs, and I was kinda disappointed. But as time went by they were given more depth. Speaking as a die-hard TOS curmudgeon, the development of the Klingons was for me one of the highlights of watching TNG/DS9.

[byteknight]

Originally posted by BouncyCaitian
For Those who are interested, GURPS Klingons is out. Adn the Klingons in here follow the Ruthless Bastard John M. Ford model. Of interest, the Klingon Empire see the Federation as more of an economic competitor than a mortal enemy

I'm a big Gurps fan and I'm surprised I haven't heard of Gurps Klingons. Went to sjgames.com and couldn't find a word about it, not even in playtest.

Would you happen to have a link?

Thanks.

[nickgb]

It is not published by Steve Jackson Games, but by Amarillo Design Bureau. GURPS Klingons is the klingon supplement for Prime Directive, the powered by GURPS title, star fleet battles universe.

It also contains the deck plans of a small Klingon combat fast patrol ship from the tactical game Star Fleet Battles.

Here is the link to the SFB ordering page:

http://www.starfleetstore.com/MERCHA...duct_Code=8003

[nickgb]

They also have Module Prime alpha out, which is another Prime Directive supplement. It has lots of info for the SFB Hydran race, and the deckplans for a Federation Frigate, which is a small saucer design with two warp engines below.

I did the deck plans, so, shameless plug.



Nick

[Dan Stack]

Hey Nick, tell us about the deckplans - for those of us who aren't too familiar with the SFB universe...

[T'lara]

Originally posted by byteknight
I'm curious to see how current players depict Klingon PCs and NPCs in their respective campaigns.

In the good ol' days of the Eighties, we used the FASA-John M. Ford depiction of Klingon society. The klingon home world was Klinzha, the Klingon search for honour was the Khomerex-zha. Klingons also had nomenclatures like epetai, sutai into their names.

For those not familiar, John M. Ford is a sci-fi writer who wrote "The Final Reflection," one of the best Star Trek novels ever. He also wrote "How Much For Just The Planet?", another ST novel that was hilarious.

Anyways, he wrote the Klingon Supplement for FASA and it was highly received, even by non-players.

Of course, along came TNG and it depicted the Klingons somewhat differently, what some have called "caffeine-free Klingons." Call me a TOS diehard, but I agree.

I gather that most players today have never heard of the JMF version. ( I also suspect most players today are 99.99% playing their campaigns in the 24th Century, considering TOS old fashioned, but that is another thread).


Still, I would be curious to know if anybody still adheres to the old and much superior depiction of the Klingons (or "gonnies" as our old characters used to call them).


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Byteknight
Toronto, Ontario

As much as you enjoy this FASA version by Sci Fi writer, John M. Ford. He is not Canon. Nothing he wrote or RPG wise is considered canon. I say stick to what you like but keep in mind your hard on love is not even supported by TOS or any real episode.

I for one love the LUG Andorians but they are not Canon and do not match Canon show Enterprise's depiction of the Andorians. I use the LUG Andorians in my game as the RPG currently reflects them for the most part.

I have never head the Klingons from Movie Era and up called Caffene Free Klingons. There was a drastic shift to the Klingons from the TOS (not the make up) to now. I preffer the Klingons now then the one's back then they seemed lacking in TOS, but that is most likely, because they did not go much into their history and culture TNG/DS9 did.

Changing a long standing belief on the Klingons can alienate many a player and fan if you recruit one for your game.