I just KNEW it...

[Caretaker]

Modem, actually, it was Marseilles, France. It's just a coinkey-dink that his last name is a major city in Paris.

[Modem]

Ok Reg:
Substitute “Sailor” (or “Crewman”) for “Soldier”, and “Newport” (or “Annapolis”, or “Pensacola”) for “Westpoint”. My point is; you can’t seriously buy that all personnel from SF come from SFA. First, the ‘space’ for it would be impractical (I think SIR SIG already hit on this), and secondly; reg. forces training is different than officer training (therefore there has to be some kind of segregation, to avoid the ‘contamination’ of one training program to the other).

Now, Fasa they had a great idea: SF Non-officers are trained at a separate campus (not on earth) for three years. Besides learning things like self-defense, weapons training, and such (to a minor extent, when compared to officer training), the ‘sailor’ (’crewman’) is trained with a great detail to the job they choose (transporter engineer, medical assistant and so on). He downside to this system was less cross-training, the upside was that the skills used in the character’s chosen would be much higher that most other persons from SFA (for the same amount of time).

Oh Dan, and what of that Male “Vulcan” nurse in TNG “The Drumhead”, he also didn’t go to SFA

(and thanks Caretaker for clearing up where the other branch was, but the ‘name thing’ is just too funny. I’ll post what I mean elsewhere…and at a later time)


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...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

[REG]

<font color="orange">”. My point is; you can’t seriously buy that all personnel from SF come from SFA. First, the ‘space’ for it would be impractical (I think SIR SIG already hit on this), and secondly; reg. forces training is different than officer training (therefore there has to be some kind of segregation, to avoid the ‘contamination’ of one training program to the other).</font>

So San Francisco has expanded (or rather the Starfleet Academy main campus) after Earth has undergone significant changes what with the earthquake and World War III that happened in that area.

And I can't understand the need for segregation to avoid contamination. While both assets (officer and enlisted) will receive more than adequate training in conflict defense and resolution, the primary goal of Starfleet is less-than-military, even if the job requires maintaining ship operation at peak efficiency.

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Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[calguard66]

Originally posted by Dr. Jonas Bashir:
Wow, you're turning to be a hell of a nitpicker, huh?

It sounds really logical to have training facilities in the major planets. If they can take an Academy entrance exam in starbases, why not having training centers for NCOs in various worlds. I agree with you.

The training and test to qualify for OOD (Officer of the Deck, what that mess Troi went thru is really called) is given aboard ship... given holodeck technology and the presence of experienced senior NCOs and officers I see no reason why many NCO professional development courses couldn't be given aboard ship.

You would want major ones to be consolidated to assure training standards are met, but large amounts could be done without wasting the time for the crewmember travelling to the location.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[calguard66]

Originally posted by REG:
<font color="orange">”.

And I can't understand the need for segregation to avoid contamination. While both assets (officer and enlisted) will receive more than adequate training in conflict defense and resolution, the primary goal of Starfleet is less-than-military, even if the job requires maintaining ship operation at peak efficiency.

Even in a quasi/ para military structure Commissioned officers and Non-comissioned officers have different roles, different veiwpoints and different training requirements.

You could put an autobody shop and an aircraft engine repair facility under the same roof, but why would you want to?

NCOs are subject matter experts, providing training and advice in their specific areas, and also supervising and training junior enlisted. Warrant officers are even more specialized, focusing on their areas to the virtual exclusion of all leadership responsabilities. Comissioned officers handly the "Why" of situations... they know enough about various things to understand their NCOs... but they let the expets handle the hands-on work.

Who in ST should be a warrant or NCO? The tactical officer (Gunner), the helmsman (Quartemaster), communication officer (Signalman), the security chief (Master-at-Arms)... commissioned officers should supervise Astrogation and Tactical, and command the bridge as OOD/ JOOD... that puts only four commissioned officers on a bridge that now has no enlisted whatsoever.

Below decks a single Ensign can lead a Division of 30 or more crewmen or NCOs... he doesn't need to know much about Warp Field theory or Damage Control... that's what his Chief Petty Officer and other petty officers are for.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Modem]

Thanks Calgaurd, that’s exactly what I trying to get across with the ‘segregation’ thing; each rank, never mind department, has it’s own responsibles, and duties to perform. If ‘crewmen’ are added to the mix during the training, in can change the overall outcome the officer (his abilities, decision making, etc.). It’s for these reasons that academies only train officers, not crewmen, soldiers, or any other non-com.
(30 personnel…you don’t say…I’m going to have to give Harry Kim a lot more credit )

'nother thought: What about R.O.T.C.s? Surely some colleges and universities have the capacity to train an SF officer, without having to set food on to the campus?

any thoughts?

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...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

[Modem]

Sorry that's supposed to be 'foot' no 'food'...kinda reminds of 'Undiscovered Country', and trying to speak Klingon.

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...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

[calguard66]

Originally posted by Modem:

(30 personnel…you don’t say…I’m going to have to give Harry Kim a lot more credit )

'nother thought: What about R.O.T.C.s? Surely some colleges and universities have the capacity to train an SF officer, without having to set food on to the campus?

any thoughts?

ROTC would certainly be possible... give them an OBC + Cadet cruise after they graduate before commissioning... it would add an additinal year. Today the US military takes West Point and ROTC graduates as it's primary commissioning sources... they use OCS to fill in the gaps they have left. Starfleet would probably consider SFA and OCS primary, with some ROTC grads recieving active comissions and the rest being part of a reserve component of some kind... plenty of people would complete ROTC with no intention of serving on active duty except in time of emergency or war... they would be planning to go into the FMM or or to go into the SF Reserve and pursue a civilian career...

Harry doesn't lead 30 crewmen, because ST writers and producers wouldn't know a military (paramilitary/ boyscout/ whatever) organization and career path if they tripped over it.

An infantry platoon leader (Ensign equivalent) leads 36 (24 dismounted soldiers and 4 fighting vehicles)... a much harder coordination problem than 30 aboard ship. The secret? He has a platoon sergeant (Chief Petty Officer equivelent) who has been doing this for 25 years to help him, mentor him, and train him. NCO's should have a MUCH higher visibility than ST gives them.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[Sarge]

You're preaching to my choir, Calguard. In my campaign, all the players have learned that the Chief of the Boat is the one to take your really tough problems to. What NPC senior officers don't know isn't likely to hurt them... much.


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