The perfect sollution. An open letter to WotC

[The Kurgan]

Buy Decipher. Lay off all THEIR staff and fill the vacancies with former LUG staffers. Simple. Heh, we could see those unprinted LUG Trek books yet! Hehheheheheheh

Ps. Just for good measure, wait until the next Gencon to announce the buyout & layoffs.
***chortle***

------------------
Save the whales. Collect the whole set!!!

[REG]

I admire your loyalty to the LUG staff. But I highly doubt WotC can fulfill your request at this time (although I have the same recurring good dream as you)... unless you have heard news regarding Decipher's current financial situation. Hehehe.

Besides, it would be hard to fill the vacancy when WotC already let go of the LUG staff last month (due to the Hasbro/WotC financial situation, discussed elsewhere). Heck, they don't even have enough money to secure the Dune license, much less acquire a company.

One can only hope Decipher would be smart enough to establish its own RPG division filling the positions with unemployed and available former LUG staff.

Doing so will probably get them on my good side... <u>probably</u>.

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[This message has been edited by REG (edited 01-26-2001).]

[The Kurgan]

Yeah, it's just a pipe dream, but a fun one. Decipher just really ticked me off and I love a good old fashoined case of karma-ala-bites-em-in-the-ass. On a semi-related note, and also, imo, funny as hell, every Trek RPG book I've bought off the net it turns out I bought from someone listed in the books credits! Now THAT is a weird coincidence. And possibly very telling. God, I hope those guys manage to reform, for their own sakes as well as our wants. I know WotC didn't do it on purpose, but they did effectively put them oob. A new name and a little backing and they could, if they desired, make a much wanted comeback. In all my years of gaming I've never before seen a game company achieve such a pop status and fan following, except maybe Morrow Project, and the numbers are much lower, unfortunately. White Wolf has zillions of raving goth maniacs drooling over them, but I'd still bet very few of the fans in that case could tell you anything about the company or writers themselves. The genre is what gets them. Oh well, time will tell.

------------------
Save the whales. Collect the whole set!!!

[The Kurgan]

Hah! I just thought of something funny. Names for LUG get togethers/conventions:

LUG: The Gathering (a bit in bad taste, but funny)
ALL OUT LUGfest! Or even add the S for Star Trek and say S.LUGfest.
LUGgernaut (a newsletter?).
LUGnuts (a fan club).
Decipher: the LUGgering (shiver).
LUG-Buddies (I have no clue, it just sounded funny).
LUG-me-tender (bwahahahaha).
LUG Street Diciples (a New York street gang of geeky gamers).


Awright, that's it. I'm in a weird enough mood now, so I'll announce this. Watch for me to release a web based (free) manuscript. "DOON: The Role Playing Game" I think it's time... The first adventure will entail a massive war over a rare manuscript (only 3000 were originally printed centuries ago and this is the only surviving copy). Think War of the Ring. Three main factions will be fighting. The D'Tw'entees, The Ancient order of Iconoclasts (their symbol is a Unicorn with a broken horn), and The Decpicable Horde. All will take place on the New Doon (parody of the 2nd Dune planet from the last Herbert book). Nuff said.



------------------
Save the whales. Collect the whole set!!!

[Lolth-org]

<hr> Watch for me to release
a web based (free) manuscript. "DOON: The Role Playing Game" I think it's time...
<hr>

*Chuckle* Nice, but watch out for the name. I think DOON was used for a parody book about Dune. Arachnides, Doon, the desert planet. . . .

------------------
The pain, the pain. I think a neuron
just short circuited. *thud*

[The Kurgan]

Heh heh, yeah, it's intentionally based on the Lampoon parody, with a few additions tossed in to make it playable. Since it's free, and since the original authors of the book even claimed it was just a gag to make money, I am basically ignoring the legal end. I really doubt they'd care, and even if they do, *I* don't give a rat's heiney. Besides, those guys are probably sitting in rockers by now compaining about "Those Confounding Machines!" aka computers. It's been over 25 years since the book came out. I doubt they'd ever even hear about a small joke rpg bopping around the netiverse. And how come no one ever rubs MY tummy?! Darn...



------------------
Save the whales. Collect the whole set!!!

[CmdrBluejeans]

Originally posted by Lolth-org:

*Chuckle* Nice, but watch out for the name. I think DOON was used for a parody book about Dune. Arachnides, Doon, the desert planet. . . .

It was. "The Kumkwatz Haagendazs. He whose Fruitlike Soul is Tempered to a Soft Consistency."

That joke still gets mileage in my gaming group, as whenever someone asks in one of our gaming sessions "How can this be?" or "How did you do that?" or any similar question, the invariable reply is "FOR I *AM* THE KUMKWATZ HAAGENDASZ!"

I think my gaming group needs to lay off the sugar, personally, but they're so amusing when you rub their tummies.


BJ

[Karg]

He pours with out Foam!!!

Karg

[admrsam2]

I remember it. I was playing STRPG and this little annoying decipher guy came in, and handed otu flyers announcing the buy out of the star trek rpg license. I was pissed

[Modem]

Oh come off it you guys; you’re still sore at Decipher?
First ICON is dead, thanks to Vultu…Wizards of the Coast (it’s their fault because: a) If they had gotten the Trek license, it would become a D20 game. Fine for those like A.D.&D. with phasers, but for those of us who’ve: grown up, learned more/different rpg systems, and learned ‘storytelling’ over ‘hack & slash’, D20 is step backwards.
b) VotC tried to get the license using an underhanded tactic of buying the producer of ‘the game’ well not contacting the ‘licenser’ [Paramount]. Thankfully, the contract expired at the end of the same year, Paramount’s option not to renew is good in my eyes: If Roddenberry turned down TSR, why shouldn’t Paramount turn down Wotc [same crap, bigger pile].)
Second, look what they did to Star Wars. Their version is stiff, unimaginative and (when compared to it’s predecessor) boring. Look at their version of ‘The Force’: only Jedi can use it (actively and passively), and if a character uses the Force badly/evilly I see no mention of repercussions that should happen to the character. Not even in their article on the Force in ‘Star Wars Gamer’, did they even touch on this. Think what would happen to Trek.
Third WotC and AOL have something in common, they bought a lot of stuff during the ‘Hype’ of their duration. See AOL bought Time Life, and a bunch of other communications company while their stock was at an (artificially) inflated high (if they were to have to come up with the money for the stuff now, with their stock at a more ‘corrected’, they couldn’t do it). Same holds for Wotc; they bought things during their ‘hype’ era (with the help of ‘big brother’ Hasbro), now that both Pokemon and Magic sales are starting to go through the floor rather than the roof, D20/D&D (IT BURNS, IT BURNS) is real the only thing keeping them afloat.
Bottom line: I don’t plan on buying/playing any D20 products for at least a year (though if I make it to/through summer, I’ll be happy…those ‘D20’ zombies’ are relentless. “Play in my game, play in my game” ,“Go Away!!! I’m reading DC Universe, then GURPS!!!”)


------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

[The Kurgan]

>Oh come off it you guys; you’re still sore at Decipher?

Uh, well, Yeah!

>First ICON is dead, thanks to Vultu…Wizards of the Coast (it’s their fault because: a) If they had gotten the Trek license, it would become a D20 game. Fine for those like A.D.&D. with phasers, but for those of us who’ve: grown up, learned more/different rpg systems, and learned ‘storytelling’ over ‘hack & slash’, D20 is step backwards.

No argument about the D20 system, but at least we would have been able to buy just the remaining books we needed and converted them to ICON (which I know the authors that post in here would have typed up for us and added to the site). Sinking a small fortune into game books only to be told that we have to start all over is certainly grounds to be annoyed at the very least.

>b) VotC tried to get the license using an underhanded tactic of buying the producer of ‘the game’ well not contacting the ‘licenser’ [Paramount]. Thankfully, the contract expired at the end of the same year, Paramount’s option not to renew is good in my eyes: If Roddenberry turned down TSR, why shouldn’t Paramount turn down Wotc [same crap, bigger pile].)

Maybe, but to have pulled it off Decipher would have had to have been working on it in the background for quite a while, before WotC did the buyout. You don't just walk into the Paramount office on a whim and say, "Hey, wouldja take a little more than the other guys are paying for the licence? Cool! Where do I sign?" Then they didn't even have the balls to contact LUG or WotC to let them know what was done, they just waited until Gencon to make the embarrassing announcement. How would you feel if your wife waited until you were at a big party to tell everyone she was re-marrying?

>Second, look what they did to Star Wars. Their version is stiff, unimaginative and (when compared to it’s predecessor) boring. Look at their version of ‘The Force’: only Jedi can use it (actively and passively), and if a character uses the Force badly/evilly I see no mention of repercussions that should happen to the character. Not even in their article on the Force in ‘Star Wars Gamer’, did they even touch on this. Think what would happen to Trek.

Again, no argument here. D20 is a pathetic joke, and a bad one at that. It's not (in my opinion) even really a role playing game. It's Magic: the Gathering with character sheets and dice.

>Third WotC and AOL have something in common, they bought a lot of stuff during the ‘Hype’ of their duration. See AOL bought Time Life, and a bunch of other communications company while their stock was at an (artificially) inflated high (if they were to have to come up with the money for the stuff now, with their stock at a more ‘corrected’, they couldn’t do it). Same holds for Wotc; they bought things during their ‘hype’ era (with the help of ‘big brother’ Hasbro), now that both Pokemon and Magic sales are starting to go through the floor rather than the roof, D20/D&D (IT BURNS, IT BURNS) is real the only thing keeping them afloat.

WotC has (had?) only two things going for them financially: D&D and Magic. Both of which are dying much deserved deaths as all the fans begin to realize what a mistake they made and start switching to actual FUN games with real content. Even if they came up with a new set of GOOD house rules I still think it's too late for them. Look at FASA for a good example. Hard times with mediocre rules for a LONG time, finally came up with a serious winner in Shadowrun, but it still couldn't keep them afloat in the long run and they are now tits up and assuming room temperature. The only property that was worth a crap (Shadowrun)is now in the hands of the authors and their new company. I wish them luck. I kinda like that game, even if it drives me up a wall that they re-release every damned supplement whenever they do a rules revision. GOD that's annoying. You've got the Grimiore? Cool, which version?! Yech.

>Bottom line: I don’t plan on buying/playing any D20 products for at least a year (though if I make it to/through summer, I’ll be happy…those ‘D20’ zombies’ are relentless. “Play in my game, play in my game” ,“Go Away!!! I’m reading DC Universe, then GURPS!!!”)

They're everywhere! Run!!!

Basically, the bottom line is that yeah, I was really ticked off at WotC for buying LUG, but I'm even more pissed at Decipher for their underhandedness. Had they not tried to get the licence from LUG I believe that LUG would have retained it. Maybe no, but it's a definite possibility. And even if WotC altered the rules a bit didn't mean we had to play by them. The books are 95% info and 5% rules, and it would be a cynch to convert a few things and keep our current collections contemporary.

------------------
Save the whales. Collect the whole set!!!

[REG]

Oh, crap!!!!! Here we go again!!!!


<font color="red">First ICON is dead, thanks to Vultu…Wizards of the Coast (it’s their fault...</font>

The future production of Icon product would have already been dead, with or without WotC's help. No offense but whoever is in charge of LUG's business aspect made a LOT of mistakes which resulted in a LOT of debt. That is not going to sit well with the property owner of Star Trek and Dune who are expecting a return investment for granting the licenses in the first place.

So don't blame on external source.

**********

<font color="red">a) If they had gotten the Trek license, it would become a D20 game. Fine for those like A.D.&D. with phasers, but for those of us who’ve: grown up, learned more/different rpg systems, and learned ‘storytelling’ over ‘hack & slash’, D20 is step backwards.</font>

You cannot blame a system (a set of rules mechanics). Even the Icon system is a set of rules mechanic. It does not dictate the atmosphere of the game.

That responsibility lies in the Gamemaster. Any blame on the mechanics is a poor excuse and simply a mask for lack of creativity, IMHO.

**********

<font color="red">b) VotC tried to get the license using an underhanded tactic of buying the producer of ‘the game’ well not contacting the ‘licenser’ [Paramount]. Thankfully, the contract expired at the end of the same year, Paramount’s option not to renew is good in my eyes: If Roddenberry turned down TSR, why shouldn’t Paramount turn down Wotc [same crap, bigger pile].)</font>

I'm sure they have contacted Paramount. As for Paramount going with Decipher (who may I remind you, Mo, <font color="white"></u>THEY DO NOT HAVE AN ESTABLISHED ROLE PLAYING GAME DIVISION AS OF LATE</u></font>) it is a BAD mistake, IMHO.

Don't expect Decipher to revive the Icon system, unless they hired author of said system. (go back to my first post on this thread).

**********

<font color="red">Second, look what they did to Star Wars. Their version is stiff, unimaginative and (when compared to it’s predecessor) boring. Look at their version of ‘The Force’: only Jedi can use it (actively and passively), and if a character uses the Force badly/evilly I see no mention of repercussions that should happen to the character. Not even in their article on the Force in ‘Star Wars Gamer’, did they even touch on this. Think what would happen to Trek.</font>

Have you even played the friggin' game? Or easier yet, READ the rulebook?

Most force powers are out of their league, but if you pick up Force-sensitive feat (anyone can one up, from Scoundrel to Soldier), they can acquire a few Force powers.

**********

<font color="red">Bottom line: I don’t plan on buying/playing any D20 products for at least a year (though if I make it to/through summer, I’ll be happy…those ‘D20’ zombies’ are relentless. “Play in my game, play in my game” ,“Go Away!!! I’m reading DC Universe, then GURPS!!!”)</font>

Well, that explains why you don't know much about Star Wars D20. Let me give you one advice. In order to critique something, you have to read, watch, or listen it... all the way through.

After all, Roger Ebert is not a notable critic if he can't watch a horrible film all the way to the end. Heck, even I watch the entire VOY episode before I can tell you it sucks or not, and I will give you the reasons why with what I have reviewed before my eyes and not from someone else's mouth.

Where's my pressure meds?

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[This message has been edited by REG (edited 02-14-2001).]

[REG]

<font color="red">Again, no argument here. D20 is a pathetic joke, and a bad one at that. It's not (in my opinion) even really a role playing game. It's Magic: the Gathering with character sheets and dice.</font>

I beg to differ. The D20 is way much better than its predecessor system that have graced the pages of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (noticed I said "better" not the "best," no system can perfectly simulate real life). And what's more, the D20 system uses just one die to resolve tasks, not multiple dice (unless you introduce a rule mechanic like "Calling Upon the Force" in Star Wars RPG).

The D20 skill system is a heck of a lot easier to bite than the previous AD&D system, which relies heavily on the character's attribute and not the on character's development due to further experience and training (D20 system's skill rank is somewhat similar to Icon system's skill level).

And most importantly, the "main warp core" of D20 system is the task resolution mechanics. In other words, you can toss away class-level mechanics if you don't like it. Yes, I have yet to see an outside game company brave (and creative) enough to produce a game under OGL that does not use class/level mechanic.

Call it what you will, but if Fate had not handed WotC a critical blow, in the hands of the former LUG staff (of which I have more faith in them), they could have done a Dune D20 that is radically different from what WotC has put out in terms of their D20 product lines.

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[This message has been edited by REG (edited 02-14-2001).]

[Dan Stack]

[Extreme Sarcasm Mode On]
Due to my limited intelligence, I have been duped into running both the new D&D and Star Wars games. I thought we were having fun, but now I see the light. I'm going to inform my group that we had an awful time. If they want to play Star Wars, they'll have to go on ebay and buy books which are harder and harder to acquire.

Keeping it related to Trek, I now also see how the d20 system would have sucked. I mean, after Ross Isaacs, Steve Long, and Ken Hite had their lobotomies, the Klingon sourcebook would have been converted into - "Board the Klingon D-7 - the Ultimate Dungeon". Yes, I've seen advance copies. The basic idea was you would be 1st level Starfleet officers, beamed on board a Klingon warship. Your job would be to kill all the Klingons, take their treasure, and escape. (Actually, it would be part of the classic D series - from the Vault of the Drow, you would find yourself in progressively more difficult Klingon ships).

[Sarcasm Mode Off]


[This message has been edited by Dan Stack (edited 02-14-2001).]

[Dan Gurden]

Originally posted by The Kurgan:
Maybe, but to have pulled it off Decipher would have had to have been working on it in the background for quite a while, before WotC did the buyout. You don't just walk into the Paramount office on a whim and say, "Hey, wouldja take a little more than the other guys are paying for the licence? Cool! Where do I sign?" Then they didn't even have the balls to contact LUG or WotC to let them know what was done, they just waited until Gencon to make the embarrassing announcement. How would you feel if your wife waited until you were at a big party to tell everyone she was re-marrying?

Would this be this weird ideal of business that they keep telling me about? Until know I could never understand why companies in competition with each other couldn't just play nice...

Again, no argument here. D20 is a pathetic joke, and a bad one at that. It's not (in my opinion) even really a role playing game. It's Magic: the Gathering with character sheets and dice.

So that would be a... um whats its name? Oh Yeah... A roleplaying game then?

>Third WotC and AOL have something in common, they bought a lot of stuff during the ‘Hype’ of their duration. See AOL bought Time Life, and a bunch of other communications company while their stock was at an (artificially) inflated high (if they were to have to come up with the money for the stuff now, with their stock at a more ‘corrected’, they couldn’t do it). Same holds for Wotc; they bought things during their ‘hype’ era (with the help of ‘big brother’ Hasbro), now that both Pokemon and Magic sales are starting to go through the floor rather than the roof, D20/D&D (IT BURNS, IT BURNS) is real the only thing keeping them afloat.

In other words their business plan worked. They could see an end to a meal ticket and used their 'artificial profits' to ensure that the company didn't collapse...

I think were back to the business aspect of things here.

Now for the record, before you get annoyed with me. I agree with Some of your points, but the arguements you present were taught to me during business classes at school. Deep down I may not like what either Wizards or Decipher have done, but the fact is that both companies are supporting the hobby and are still bringing in new blood thus ensuring that those of us who still roleplay dont stagnate and die sad lonely individuals (OK I exadderate here, but still)...

Believe it or not THAT is the bottom line. The one with the Profit totals on it.

As for those of us who dont like the change. After all, we must fear change, change is bad. Then may I suggest that if 95% of roleplaying is background and 5% rules.

WHO CARES WHO WRITES THE RULES? This is trek, the background remains the same and the added bonus is that in being a roleplaying game as well, if we dont like the background we can change that too...

Jeez, whats next. A Narrator writing his own roleplaying world and rules? Whatever is the world coming too?