[News] Decipher RPG Product Lines Transferred

[tonyg]

THe statement doesn seem to make sense considering how the RPG field has been lately.

Most of the small companies that have survived the drop in RPG sales over the last few years have started printing D20 stuff that they don't really care much about just to stay in business. For companies like Chaosium or AEG printing one D20 product can generate enough revenus to support one of thier other systems. IT isn't becuase they love D20, it is becuase they need to make money tokeep thier companies alive.

Decipher probalby branced nto the RPG field in order to challenge WotC. But it is hard sometimes for people who are successful in one feld to accept that they don't know how to handle a different one. So Decipher's execs probably did make decisions that had adverse effects on the RPG division.

THe decision not to realse any new RPG products is almost cetainly one that didn't orignate from the RPG staff! THe folks who wrote the TREK and LOTR stuff certainly want it to be printed, and want people to enjoy playing it. That is probably the reason why Steve Long has gone to all the trouble he has to get SPACEDOCK out on the net for us. He sure isn't making any profit on it. (Thanks AGAIN Steve!)

[D.S.McBride]

Originally posted by tonyg
THe decision not to realse any new RPG products is almost cetainly one that didn't orignate from the RPG staff!

In the thread that Don linked on the first page of this sticky, a number of ex-LUG/Decipher staffers wrote in, and confirmed that they had exactly the same WTF reaction when a polished-off work was taken in hand by the administration...and then stuck in a cubbyhole and left to collect dust for some incomprehensible reason.

The scenario Mr. Vasilakos has laid out makes a great deal of sense, at least for me: it gives a pretty good indication as to why the Player's Guide ended up - to use PGoodman13's apt phrase - such an unholy mess in places, along with the unexplainable delays with the Narrator's Screen and the following works.

I'd be willing to give the disgruntled ex-employee argument some creedence if, a) Mr. Vasilakos had been dismissed from his position, rather than having quit, b) the ex-LUG staff had been undercompensated for their time, c) he was a lone voice in the wilderness crying foul. Even such a consistent Decipher-booster as Matt Colville has confirmed on this same thread that Decipher's administrative conduct had - and likely continues to be - seriously sub-par. Whether they come to their senses enough to at least get the rest of the prepared books out is, at this point, anyone's guess.

[REG]

Originally posted by tonyg

Most of the small companies that have survived the drop in RPG sales over the last few years have started printing D20 stuff that they don't really care much about just to stay in business. For companies like Chaosium or AEG printing one D20 product can generate enough revenus to support one of thier other systems. IT isn't becuase they love D20, it is becuase they need to make money tokeep thier companies alive.

I do find your statement hard to digest, but it may have a basis of truth.

For Chaosium, they started off badly, and their lack of agressive support for Wizards' CoC d20 (a one-book deal, for which Chaosium is supposed to support it) indicated to me that they did it for the money. They are still supporting that rulebook (co-written by Monte Cook and John Tynes) but in low-hype dual stat supplement products. (They shut down plans for a Pulp Cthulhu campaign setting for CoC d20.)

As for AEG, though they may initially do it solely for the money, their Spycraft engine lines are major hits, especially now that they have added SG-1.

True, many d20 did it for the money, but if they don't make products that appeal to the market, then their company won't last long, and some have gotten out of the d20 business, or fell into obscurity, like one publisher that tried to make a d20 superhero game titled, The Foundation.

d20 is not a get-rich-quick scheme. You still have to put a lot of effort into turning the base ruleset into an enjoyable, appealing game.

Decipher probalby branced nto the RPG field in order to challenge WotC. But it is hard sometimes for people who are successful in one feld to accept that they don't know how to handle a different one. So Decipher's execs probably did make decisions that had adverse effects on the RPG division.

It makes you wonder.

[Ineti]

Well, it's not a big deal to some, but I've been emailing Monica Jones at Decipher recently, and got this response to one of my questions:

>A related question: Will there be any additional downloadable RPG adventures posted to the website?

Yeah, look for more by the end of the week! Enjoy! It's the least we can do for our players!

So, that's something at least. I won't comment on the "least we can do" comment.

[tonyg]

Originally posted by REG
True, many d20 did it for the money, but if they don't make products that appeal to the market, then their company won't last long, and some have gotten out of the d20 business, or fell into obscurity, like one publisher that tried to make a d20 superhero game titled, The Foundation.

d20 is not a get-rich-quick scheme. You still have to put a lot of effort into turning the base ruleset into an enjoyable, appealing game.

Not really. Since D20 now has such a dominant position in the RPG indusrty, a bad D20 product will probably outsell a good non D20 product. The current situation with CODA illustates that.

Sad to say it, but if Decipher had printed TREK supplements with stats for CODA and D20 (like what AEG did with the L5R line), or even D20 only, sales would probably exceed anything they can get with a non-d20 product.

Originally posted by REG
d20 is not a get-rich-quick scheme. You still have to put a lot of effort into turning the base ruleset into an enjoyable, appealing game.

More like Windows. Once you reach a certain maket share, product quality starts to be secondary to compatability with a system that the mass market feels comfortable with.


While Chaosiums D20 stuff does seem half hearted and hasn't been very succesful, it is outselling thier non D20 stuff.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by tonyg
Not really. Since D20 now has such a dominant position in the RPG indusrty, a bad D20 product will probably outsell a good non D20 product. The current situation with CODA illustates that.

Wow, I love this BS. Have you seen the sales figures for Trek or LotR? No? Well I have, and trust me, they greatly outsell a "bad D20 product" by an order of magnitude. [shakes head] What game won Best RPG of 2003 twice again?

Enough could-have-been, should-have-been; hindsight is always 20/20.

[Don Mappin]

I think I'm going to take the rest of the day off (of the boards). I've had to answer two e-mails this morning, both full of speculation bullshit, respond to my adventure about not being proofread (an unpaid project), and this little gem about how the RPG line would be all fine-and-dandy if we had just made it D20 instead. Like the grouping of Moore, Long, Hite, Isaacs, Colville, and Seyler are a bunch of RPG industry morons. What were we thinking?

Toodles.

[Jason Durall]

Originally posted by REG
(They shut down plans for a Pulp Cthulhu campaign setting for CoC d20.)

Chaosium hasn't shut down this book - it's just very late.

[Tar-Palantir]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
{SNIP}.... the RPG line would be all fine-and-dandy if we had just made it D20 instead. Like the grouping of Moore, Long, Hite, Isaacs, Colville, and Seyler are a bunch of RPG industry morons.

I realise your comment is rhetorical, but speaking for myself, I am quite pleased with both LOTR RPG and ST RPG. D20 is not the perfect system for everything, nor is CODA. So what is?

The Star Trek RPG has worked very well, and the writing shows setting-related flavour that FASA's game never had, despite their producing more supplements than Decipher. I have most of FASA's supplements, but switched to the Decipher's game a month ago because I thought it was very well written. In a sense, Decipher succeeded in making this a fun, interesting game, despite itself and it's internal difficulties. It's unfortunate that it appears there will not be more additions to the system, but that is no reason to disparage what is already an excellent product. The books that are available right now will give me TONS of playing pleasure.

To presuppose that a D20 version of the game would have been better is risky. What makes D20 sell so well? Consistent releases are a vital component to their success, as is the extensive marketing effort that makes their product lines appear "alive." Clearly Decipher has proven unable or unwilling to do the same - for reasons other than the game system itself.

I do not agree with those who want to knock D20 simply because it is D20, just like those who would knock Microsoft just for being Microsoft, rather than address specific deficiencies in their respective products. On the other hand, I think that diversity is an advantage and if everything was D20, I probably would play less - everything becomes painted with the same brush and becomes somewhat bland.

The failure of the Star Trek game line is not the system nor the writers' fault, it is a business failure on a number of levels. It would be unfortunate if this tainted the system itself, because I believe the game is quite sound and most worthwhile.

[D.S.McBride]

Although it's off-topic, a much-deserved piece of good new from - and for - our Commander-in-Chief:

Originally posted by Don Mappin on Abulia Savant
Apparently the rumor of Stargate SG-1 RPG winning the InQuest Gamers Best RPG of 2004 has all but officially been confirmed. Neither AEG or InQuest, on the record, have made the announcement, however. Time to update the resumé, I suspect.

After a year and a half of rough knocks from the Decipher end, sincere congratulations and all the best on this triumph, Don. Go ahead and have a drink (Yeah! Be an oenophile!) on us.

[REG]

Originally posted by Jason Durall

Chaosium hasn't shut down this book - it's just very late.

A tad bit too late, now that the one-book deal between WotC and Chaosium have expired, and WotC is no longer printing the rulebook.

It's now up to Chaosium, if they want to continue support, perhaps do their edition of CoC d20 rulebook.

[REG]

Originally posted by Tar-Palantir

To presuppose that a D20 version of the game would have been better is risky. What makes D20 sell so well? Consistent releases are a vital component to their success, as is the extensive marketing effort that makes their product lines appear "alive." Clearly Decipher has proven unable or unwilling to do the same - for reasons other than the game system itself.

Well, to be brutally honest, that is a good business model for anyone in RPG publishing, regardless of the rules systems.

To place blame on the designers is wrong. It is Decipher's upper management.

[Tar-Palantir]

Originally posted by REG
To place blame on the designers is wrong. It is Decipher's upper management.

My point exactly.

[Jason Durall]

Originally posted by REG
A tad bit too late, now that the one-book deal between WotC and Chaosium have expired, and WotC is no longer printing the rulebook.

It's now up to Chaosium, if they want to continue support, perhaps do their edition of CoC d20 rulebook.

My impression is that they will continue to support the d20 Cthulhu stuff, but future development will be towards their BRP house system.

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by REG
A tad bit too late, now that the one-book deal between WotC and Chaosium have expired, and WotC is no longer printing the rulebook.

It's now up to Chaosium, if they want to continue support, perhaps do their edition of CoC d20 rulebook.

The d20 CoC core rulebook is still available; I just saw 4 newly ordered copies on the shelf of a local bookstore.

I'd think that if Chaosium wanted to reprint more core books, they'd just do the WOTC license thing again. If they did it themselves, they'd have to leave out the character generation rules as per the d20 licenses.