When you say Enterprise isn't Trek....

[Chris Lowrey]

Maybe I'm just coming in late on this one, but I have a great deal of interest in those that state that Enterprise isn't Trek.

For those that feel that way, what exactly, precisely, do you mean?

If you were going to do a show on the beginning of the Federation, what would it cover? What characters would you have? What would the episodes be like? What would be the focus, or would there be one?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Chris

[REG]

1. A Daedalus-class starship, not the Akiraprise.
2. Introduce Klingons LATER in the series.
3. Bring TOS races in the forefront (which Braga finally did).
4. Stop dropping hints of contemporary Trek races like the Ferengi.
5. GOOD STORY (but please no more time travel).

P.S. I've half a mind to add "Remove Braga from the franchise permanantly."

[Phantom]

Originally posted by REG
1. A Daedalus-class starship, not the Akiraprise.
2. Introduce Klingons LATER in the series.
3. Bring TOS races in the forefront (which Braga finally did).
4. Stop dropping hints of contemporary Trek races like the Ferengi.
5. GOOD STORY (but please no more time travel).

P.S. I've half a mind to add "Remove Braga from the franchise permanantly."

What he said pretty much covers it.

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by REG
1. A Daedalus-class starship, not the Akiraprise.

OK, this one's just a fan boy nit-pick. (And I suppose I'm a bit of a fan boy myself by actually debating this point. )

Anyway, TNG establishes that the Daedalus is a Federation ship class which would come after this Enterprise. (If you want to get technical about it, the Daedalus-class name was never associated with any particular ship design on-screen at all.)

The only time the Daedalus-class design has ever been seen on screen was as a model in the set dressing of a character's office. It was never promiently displayed, never the focal point of a scene, and the "real" ship was never given "center stage" on screen. As a graphic art student, I can say that there's a good reason for that:

It's a bad design and would be laughed off the screen today.

The Daedalus-class design comes from Matt Jefferies's original proposal sketches of the TOS Enterprise and was a design which TOS's producers rightly rejected in favor of something better.

Sometimes you have to "damn the canon" (which the Daedalus isn't) in favor of something that works

Even the NSEA Protector from GalaxyQuest is a better design for a modern audience and that design was intended to be funny.

2. Introduce Klingons LATER in the series.

I agree with this point but only so far as their appearance in "Broken Bow." The other Klingon appearances in Enterprise have been OK to excellent.

3. Bring TOS races in the forefront (which Braga finally did).

Since he did, this complaint is moot.

4. Stop dropping hints of contemporary Trek races like the Ferengi.

Since they've not broken canon with what they've already done (with the possible exception of the Klingons), I see no reason why they shouldn't. In fact, Enterprise's Borg episode was quite good.

5. GOOD STORY (but please no more time travel).

The first two seasons of TNG were bland but the show got better.
The first two seasons of DS9 were bland but the show got better.
While VOY never found its focus, there were a number of excellent stories told during its run.
Now, returing to tradition, the first two season of ENT were bland but the show is getting better.

And for every person who hates time travel, there's one who loves it to death; I happen to be one of them and I was thrilled with the possibility of a large story arc centered around it.

[REG]

Originally posted by Ezri's Toy

Anyway, TNG establishes that the Daedalus is a Federation ship class which would come after this Enterprise. (If you want to get technical about it, the Daedalus-class name was never associated with any particular ship design on-screen at all.)

The only time the Daedalus-class design has ever been seen on screen was as a model in the set dressing of a character's office. It was never promiently displayed, never the focal point of a scene, and the "real" ship was never given "center stage" on screen. As a graphic art student, I can say that there's a good reason for that:

It's a bad design and would be laughed off the screen today.

I disagree. The medical Pasteur wasn't laughed off at the end of TNG TV series.

As for Daedalus being a Federation starship, well, it may have been when the Federation is formed, as I'm sure Earth's Starfleet will become Federation's Starfleet. But for now, she can be an Earth-based design, or at least her predecessor.

The Daedalus-class design comes from Matt Jefferies's original proposal sketches of the TOS Enterprise and was a design which TOS's producers rightly rejected in favor of something better.

And yet it later represents one of the earlier starships before the Connie-clas Enterprise, that it even graced the office of Sisko himself.

And we are doing a prequel TV series, right?

Sometimes you have to "damn the canon" (which the Daedalus isn't) in favor of something that works

That's what I'm afraid of, and happy you admit that Braga always ignores continuity.

Even the NSEA Protector from GalaxyQuest is a better design for a modern audience and that design was intended to be funny.

Which makes me wonder why we went backward to pre-TOS in the first place?

I agree with this point but only so far as their appearance in "Broken Bow." The other Klingon appearances in Enterprise have been OK to excellent.

No, I mean LATER.

Since he did, this complaint is moot.

Perhaps, but I would have preferred they switched place with the Klingons appearing in the premiere and early first-season episodes.

Since they've not broken canon with what they've already done (with the possible exception of the Klingons), I see no reason why they shouldn't. In fact, Enterprise's Borg episode was quite good.

Actually, never did like that episode.

The first two seasons of TNG were bland but the show got better.

But it marked the first time Star Trek has been on TV since TOS.

The first two seasons of DS9 were bland but the show got better.

Actually, I did liked the first season.

While VOY never found its focus, there were a number of excellent stories told during its run.

A number of episodes I liked before Braga, but less than a handful since Braga took over, until Kenneth Biller replaced Braga on the final season.

Now, returing to tradition, the first two season of ENT were bland but the show is getting better.

Not good enough. Drop the Delphic Expanse and Temporal Cold War arcs and I'll say it is getting better. Some of the episodes that I like this season are not even related to the story arcs.

And for every person who hates time travel, there's one who loves it to death; I happen to be one of them and I was thrilled with the possibility of a large story arc centered around it.

I used to like time travel, especially those who made The Voyage Home and First Contact films, but Braga puts a dizzying spin on his versions. Trust me, the only way I can watch his time-travel stories with ease is by downing half a bottle of Aleve or Tylenol (maybe a mix of both).

Just cut down on time-travel stories and focus on exploration. After all, that's what the "star" ship is for.

[Capt. Anderson]

Can anyone count the number of times ENT has used to time travel to push an already weak story ahead?


Anywho, to my point. "Proving Ground" was a step forward in the right direction for ENT. It brougt a TOS race back into story arc and I would love for the Andorians to become a staple of the show.

[REG]

Personally, it can do without the story arc. But I do like the conflict relationship between Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian. It is reminiscent of DS9 Federation, Cardassians, and Bajorans (only a lot more scheming than passionate).

[Capt. Anderson]

Originally posted by REG
I do like the conflict relationship between Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian. It is reminiscent of DS9 Federation, Cardassians, and Bajorans (only a lot more scheming than passionate).

Agreed!

This episode has turned me around. I just love those scene stealing Andorians!

[REG]

Personally, that should have been the MAIN arc of the series that is based on one question, "How did the founding members formed the United Federation of Planets?"

[Chris Lowrey]

Personally, I believe that's what they are building towards. This is just setting the stage, with the Xindi war being the flashpoint for the coming together of some of the main Federation races.

Once they are done with the Xindi, there would be some political stuff to get into.

I think this has been a very interesting way to get into it, and I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

Chris

[REG]

"Building toward to"? Bah. Just wrap it up and conclude the TCW/DE story arcs already. The sooner you pull out that "dagger" out of the wound, the sooner we can begin to mend.

[Chris Lowrey]

It's no dagger. It's an interesting storyline.

Chris

[REG]

Originally posted by Chris Lowrey

It's no dagger. It's an interesting storyline.

No, it's the mutha of all migraine. This is Braga's creation. I have gone through his time-travel stories in VOY, and now he's using that same stupid formula on ENT, albeit an expanded version ... more than enough to inflict aneurysm.

Wrap it up.

[Chris Lowrey]

"more than enough to inflict aneurysm."

Well, then here's to hoping that it lasts just long enough.

Chris

[C5]

Although it would have been a fascinating idea, I think that using the building of the Federation alone as the main storyline would have been very hard to render without a common thread. After all, having Vulcans, Andorans and Humans just interacting with each other episode after episode without any underlying plot could have become boring (and a bit sitcomish as well - like the characters who keep bickering at each other but about whom everybody knows that they will become friends in the end).

Of course, they could have used the Romulan war, but for once, that one would have been very hard to show while staying in canon : ships battling each others with nuclear warheads without even seeing one another...