De-Diversity in Star Trek

[Ineti]

Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos
I've always wanted to see more differences in the alien species. Excluding the Vulcans, who seem to have various skin colors, I can't remember whether I have ever seen a Black or Hispanic Betazoid...or Bajoran for that matter...I may be wrong though.

As a matter of fact, I was watching the DS9 second season episode "The Collaborator" last night, and when the vedeks are coming out of their chambers at the end of the episode, there are two black Bajorans and one that looked decidedly Asian.

They may not have gotten speaking parts, but they're there on screen and suggest that Bajorans, at least, come in as many shapes and colors as us humans.

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

I'm glad someone was more attentive to background characters than I was.

Although a species may have different skin pigmentation depending on climatic conditions, that doesn't mean they HAVE to. Anyone seen a differently colored Ferengi?

[qerlin]

Originally posted by Ezri's Toy
When ST:Voyager was new, and fans were trying to wrap their brains around a black Vulcan, Tim (Tuvok) Russ was fond of saying that because of the heat, twin suns, and thin atmosphere established by Star Trek canon, there really shouldn't be any white Vulcans at all as dark skin is an adaptation to hot climates.

See, I agree with this: most of the Vulcans for our campaign are black or Hispanic-esque; darker skins not just for the sun, but with the green blood, they should have a darker cast to their features.

Our Andorians also run the gamut from the sky blue of the new series, to more dark, metalic-like hues. There's alway going to be some level of variation in a natural system.

[Cluttered Mind]

Well, there has also been a black Romulan - Sirol, the commander seen in TNG's "The Pegasus."

Cluttered Mind

[strict31]

I'm gonna chime in here about the diversity on Enterprise.

They've obviously got a few minorities on the ship, but it also seems just as obvious that the writers don't have a clue as to what to do with the black dude. So far, we've seen one episode center around the guy, while everyone else has gotten upwards of two or three episodes centering around them (excluding the captain, who needs more focus because he's the main character). I remember watching G4TV.com recently; they aired an episode of Players, which is a show that watches famous types while they play their favorite video games. It's almost absurd to suggest this, but it really looked like Anthony Montgomery had nothing better to do while on set than play Soul Calibur. I guess he had to rush on stage for the scene in which he presses some buttons in the background and frowns as if he's struggling with the button-pressing...but that was about it. He mentioned having to be on set in a bit, but was in no hurry. I guess he wasn't pressed to make it for that powerful "lunch-eating scene"...Man, what a role. A dinner role, that is.

They've given all the white guys and the asian girl much screen time. Is it so difficult to give the black guy some more lines? Ah, who am I kidding. It's sci-fi. He's just gonna get killed by some monster.

Diversity is great. But when it's just lip service, then the black guy is still a token. But hell, who cares. T'Pol's got a great ass...


Strictly Speaking

[Sea Tyger]

I think it's probably more of the fact that they aren't sure where to go with Travis at this point, especially in the face of the current story arc.

But, then again, we didn't see a lot of stuff focused on Sulu in TOS, either. It's quite possible that there's just not a lot you can do professionally with the "ship driver."

STE is built around the "Big Three" of Archer, T'Pol and Tucker, much in the way that TOS was built around Kirk, Spock and McCoy. In that vein, we're never going to see a lot of development outside of the main characters. Malcom really hasn't had a lot of development, either...the Romulan mine field episode and the current "lover's quarrel" with Major Hayes are pretty much it. I suppose that he's more like Scotty that way (a few more bones than the others), although you could say that about Phlox, too.

There are a few more seasons left (I hope), so maybe we'll get to see more stories for Travis, Malcom and Hoshi later on.

[strict31]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger
I think it's probably more of the fact that they aren't sure where to go with Travis at this point, especially in the face of the current story arc.

But, then again, we didn't see a lot of stuff focused on Sulu in TOS, either. It's quite possible that there's just not a lot you can do professionally with the "ship driver."

STE is built around the "Big Three" of Archer, T'Pol and Tucker, much in the way that TOS was built around Kirk, Spock and McCoy. In that vein, we're never going to see a lot of development outside of the main characters. Malcom really hasn't had a lot of development, either...the Romulan mine field episode and the current "lover's quarrel" with Major Hayes are pretty much it. I suppose that he's more like Scotty that way (a few more bones than the others), although you could say that about Phlox, too.

There are a few more seasons left (I hope), so maybe we'll get to see more stories for Travis, Malcom and Hoshi later on.

Hey. Same Sea Tyger from the M&M boards?

Anyways, the only difference between Enterprise's diversity and TOS's diversity is TOS was done in the 60s, when minorities were still a novelty...

Malcom has had a lot of development; so has Hoshi...for side characters. I'm not asking for an undue focus for another side character. Like i said, Archer is the focal character and I don't have a problem with the show giving him an emphasis. Trip gets much emphasis because he is also a major character and T'Pol...well, she gets emphasis because her jiggly bits fit nicely into her logically skin-tight jammies...

I bet if you decided to give a write up of all the side characters, you'd come up with a good two to three paragraphs about each one, whereas travis might run dry at about half a paragraph.

I don't wanna make this into more of an issue than it is, though. Just something I wanted to get off my chest.


Strictly Speaking

[Sea Tyger]

Yes, one and the same.

I should also clarify that I'd like to see more on Travis...not because he's black, but because I think he can but such a cool character, like Hikaru was.

[strict31]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Yes, one and the same.

I should also clarify that I'd like to see more on Travis...not because he's black, but because I think he can but such a cool character, like Hikaru was.

Agreed.

I was watching the TNG ep with Hugh a couple of nights ago and was watching the interplay of geordie and Hugh, and the thing about the writing was...well, it ceased to be important, in this show, that Geordie was a black character. That Riker was a white character. Same with DS-9 and Voyager. Not only was everyone treated the same in the stories, but the writers gave them the same juice in a Hollywood that still isn't color blind.

I don't wanna get off on a jag where I dis Enterprise, but it seems like they've lost that. Obviously, we got some different writers, but The previous shows made it more apparent that characters were simply cool, not because they were this or that (or weren't this or that), but simply because they were cool.

Ah well.


Strictly Speaking

[Sho-sa Kurita]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger
I should also clarify that I'd like to see more on Travis...not because he's black, but because I think he can but such a cool character, like Hikaru was.

My feelings exactly. Provided the show continues next year, I'd like to get back and learn more about Travis and boomer culture in general. I think Travis' character arc kind of got blind-sided by the 'new direction' this year. Hoshi's too.

[Antonsb214]

Well, for me, the whole racial thing is a non-issue. I'm part Vietnamese, English, French , Irish, Cherokee, German, Polish, and probably a few others I haven't found out in my research (I'm a Historian), I guess that just makes me American. Oh, and my brother married an Italian. Guess that at least I'm diverse.
I mean if you really want to see one of every possible type of human, we're gonna need a bigger ship.
As for diversity, do you want the extras casting to have a quota? "Gee we need anther Hispanic, and an Asian, maybe an Eskimo...." For me it's good enough that they have at least a good mix and good actors, of course we can break the crew down even further, we got a Yankee, a good 'ole boy, a limy, a Korean, one black(don't know which tribe he's descended from though), and we could go on and on.
Of course we could knock out some aliens to make room for more ethnic groups from Earth, maybe Starfleet has an affirmative action policy....
The point is the show has a diverse cast and the stories are getting better.
And hey, maybe to Andorian eyes we ALL look pink....

[strict31]

Originally posted by Antonsb214
one black(don't know which tribe he's descended from though

Hmm. Funny thing about that is the majority of black folks don't know what tribe they descended from either. or more approriately, what part of africa from which they hail. Guess those records got lost on the trip.

I don't know if you're referring to my posts with your comments, but if you are, please go back and read them carefully. I don't think quotas are the solution to racial inequality. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to even have this discussion. It ain't a perfect world and some folks suffer because of that.

I honestly cannot believe you are not aware of this.

I don't mind that so many people hold true to idealism. I do as well. But please don't make light of the issue, or pretend that I'm overstating matters just because you may not have ever experienced prejudice. For all i know, you have been at the opposite end of a off-color joke. Or been stopped by a white cop because you're driving in the wrong side of town. I don't know. Maybe someone has thrown a racial slur your way. maybe you've been passed over for promotion because of the color of your skin. I don't know what your experience in life is.

I'm not one of those guys who hatefully blames all white people for something people did two centuries ago. All those cats are dead now. And i'm not the sort to wave a banner. Things are better in this country and in this world than they have been. No doubt. But the ideal has not arrived. Until the ideal arrives, is it really such a big deal to ask that minorities be given bigger roles in TV and movies and such? Is it really such an annoyance and inconvenience?

Lip service is a disservice.


Strictly Speaking

[Antonsb214]

I was just trying to say that maybe the show isn't as de-diversified as it looks. As has been pointed out, they are pretty diversified if you look at the human side, it's in the alien department where we need a few more, oh wait, humans don't know any other friendly aliens.... they have to get out more.


As for my experience with racism, I have lived in Georgia my whole life, there were some rough patches in the seventies, but it got better as the years go on. Not being white, black, or Hispanic... heck, not even fully Asian(and add to that being a "nerd"), has led to incidents of being teased or worse by basicly everyone else, it's a strange situation to be the minority of a minority. Funny thing is that in a hundred years or so, people like me will probably be the majority.
And usually by simplifying or making light of a situation I suppose is just my way of dealing with some of them, it seemed better than coming up with a "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" anology. It's just I'm more than aware of the "real world" doesn't mean I have to put up with it.
But I believe that this "perfect world" we would like to live in begins with US, on the individual level, I may not live to see the day when we can all get along, it always seemed that racism's biggest enemies are knowledge and understanding, so I might seem to live in a perfect world, but it's like my webpage.... under construction. We all set an example for someone, I hope my nephews see that a person's accent, clothes, or skin color has nothing to do with what kind of person they are, we all belong to one race (that's humans). Which seems to be what the other aliens on Treks are usually more concerned with that the skin color of said human. Those Xindi aren't just after one particular color of human, they're after the whole bunch, at least they're fair.