Star Wars Crossovers

[chipbsentai]

I have to tell you guys I love Spacedock. I also love Star Wars Saga Edition RPG. I was wondering, can there be a conversion for Star Wars using Spacedock? I see a couple of them, but they are based on Trek Tech.

One of the things I noticed in the HERO GAME SYSTEM, is a conversion for Star Trek, which puts things like the Starfleet Photon Torpedo Mark II at 15d6. This could be a good start since the Imperial I Star Destroyer, in the WEG Star Wars game at 5d6 (now at 60 Turbolaser Batteries, the question is the range - not so much damage. 5d6 turns out to be 40 points of damage per shot. Even at guns full ablaze it would equal more points than most ships could take I believe - 2400 points. But then there are arcs to consider - no 720 degree coverage. The Enterprise could sit out at 300,000 km and pound the ship from above, right?

The Starships of the Galaxy D20 Star Wars source-book has a Turbolaser's range at Long Range.

I wonder what Long Range means to the Star Wars galaxy. One thing is certain, they cannot shoot up. The Standard Type X Phaser on say the Enterprise-D's maximum range is 300,000 km.

Is it the same on the ISD? Is it shorter?

Can someone help me? (I know this is Star Trek based but I see some good conversions.) I just want to know if they are equivalent or maybe less, since the Battle of Coruscant in EP3 makes it seem like they get mighty close to pound each other, not only that, the Enterprise would NEVER get that close.

[Sarge]

I just want to know if they are equivalent or maybe less, since the Battle of Coruscant in EP3 makes it seem like they get mighty close to pound each other, not only that, the Enterprise would NEVER get that close.

Sure it would. In ST2, Kirk & Khan were trading broadsides at spitting distance. A lot of DS9's Dominion War battles involved fleets going toe-to-toe.

I'm not sure about SAGA, but in WEG d6 SW, space ranges were wide open to GM interpretation. What was the range of a turbolaser? 50 units? If I did a conversion, I'd assume a turbolaser has the same range as a phaser. So 50 units equals 300,000 km, hence each unit equals 60,000 km.

[chipbsentai]

I was thinking that at 300k, the Enterprise-D can shoot from z-axis, full spread of photons, and all relevant phasers. This could overload a vessels' shields and destroy the ISD right?

[Tobian]

With the exception of the Death star, most ships in SW appear to have a visual range of 'sight' whereas most ships in Trek can shoot over hundreds of thousands of kilomiters (especially with Photorps) even if they don't do it often So it is one advantage they have.

The rest, it's really hard to say. There's a lot of BS 'numbers' attached to the SW technical manuals, which bear little relationship the what we see on the films, (like the average fighter giving off more energy with a single blast than most blue-white stars do in their lifetimes, yet apparently R2D2 could withstand a hit) and on the flip side, with all sorts of potentially shield-ignoring exotic attacks in Trek, and largely unknown numbers (they keep it deliberately vague for the most part). It would IMHO be pretty hard to really calculate a like-for-like comparison of the ships, and how they would match up in combat.

Good luck!

[Phoenix]

Owen has a few ships from the Star Wars Universe on his Icon website. I'm not going to say they're accurate translations, but they are usable for his storyline.

[chipbsentai]

I found a resource called Starship Stats in the D6 system for Star Wars. I will be writing up some spacedock stats based on these and I will include the data from d20 and saga edition - maybe this could be a Star Wars Spacedock Resource when I am done.

[Owen E Oulton]

One thing to remember with Star Wars crossovers is that lasers connot penetrate Star Trek shields. It doen't matter whether they're "turbo" lasers. My rule in my Star Wars crossover is that Star Wars ships must get a solid Ion Cannon hit of a Trek ship to take its shields down first. As seen in TESB, Ion Cannons are slow-firing beasties.

[Phoenix]

Well lasers may not be able to penetrate shields, but blasters are roughly equal to disruptors as far as particle weapons go.

[C5]

On the other hand, I'm wondering what would happen if a SW fighter tried to slip under a Star Trek shield (especially when they appeared to be some bubble instead of something much closer to the ship as in the last movies). I guess the shield would hold it back, but maybe it would weaken it (I don't remember any onscreen evidence right now of a shield blocking a physical object bigger than a torpedo).

And if we take the laser route and consider an ST shield impervious to it, I still wonder what would happen if every lasers in a SW ship and its fighter were directed to a single point in a ST shield. SW values strength in numbers after all.

BTW Owen, I'm curious : if lasers were blocked by shields, what was dangerous to the ST tech then ? (a GM just can't let his players in such a safe situation... )

[Tobian]

Actually if I recall, we have seen ships bounce off each other in some TNG episodes, so yeah ANY object will bounce of a shield.. It would still do damage to the shields if it was fast enough, and not do much to good to that poor little SW ship

I find the turbolaser argument a little silly, since it's clearly not really a laser, and if it is a laser, it's a lot more potent than the silly Xray lasers that were fired off the shields that one time. That said, I severely doubt a fighter laser can do much to a modern capital ship, since they do pretty much bot-all against SW capital ships shields too LOL: SW lasers are seen to completely bounce, harmlessly, off ship shields for the most part.

With regards to vulnerabilities. That's tricky... On a fighter scale, not much, but most fighters carry low-yield explosive warheads, which could probably damage shields if nothing else, and probably do some damage to ships in lots of numbers. With regards to capital ships.. I very much suspect a large volley of laser fire from a capital ship like a star Destroyer, would wither a shield quite quickly, the downside is it would have to get quite close in Trek terms, to actually do that (because SW ships seem to have extremely short range compared to trek). That said a Death Star would destroy anything in Trek, though there's some things which outclass it in Trek, such as the trilithium warheads from Generations, the Genesis device, or the Tox uthad. "ha, I raise your planet destroying weapon, with my solar system destroying weapon!"

I will tell you what would be terrifying though.. a Borg ship encountering a SD... they would uprate their weapons and shields to terrifying levels and the SD's have MASSIVE crews so it would be nearly as potent as a full size cube! I severely doubt the empire could repel the Borg, at all!

[C5]

I will tell you what would be terrifying though.. a Borg ship encountering a SD... they would uprate their weapons and shields to terrifying levels and the SD's have MASSIVE crews so it would be nearly as potent as a full size cube! I severely doubt the empire could repel the Borg, at all!

Someone once posted on this board (it was a long time ago) what would happen if the Borg were to encounter the Empire:
First Cube: Easily defeated by a SSD
Second Cube: Destroys/assimilate half of the Imperial Fleet, narrowly defeated by the Death Star
Third Cube: The Empire is assimilated.

I found that funny.

Concerning the Death Star, I agree it would do a lot of damage to Trek ships, but I don't think it would be much worse than a Borg Cube (rather the contrary). So a small ST fleet could take care of it.


Anyway, as always with cross overs, the question is more of the rules we want to apply to the crossed universe, like:
- They are separate universes and no comparison is possible (last resort argument mainly meant to be used during fanboy flamewars )
- They are separate universes, in which the laws of physics are different. The Force may simply not exist in the Trekverse. Warp may be plain impossible in the Warsverse. Kills a lot of the interest, but allows to resolve a lot of tricky questions. Also, great opportunities for roleplay (how would a Jedi react if cut from the Force ? How does a Starfleet crew fares when half its ship's technology suddenly cease to function ?)
- The laws of each universe are taken litterally, no matter how unbalanced they make things. Turbo lasers are really lasers (and don't do anything against Trek ships, unless you take into account the impossible numerical values). Hyperspace really allows to cross the galaxy in a few days. A lightsaber can cut through absolutely anything. SW gun turrets are manned by individuals and rely on sight to aim at targets. Funny, but really unbalanced in some areas. I expect the Treknology would own the Warsverse with such rules, though not necessarily.
- The laws of each universe are "converted" when crossing over. Turbo lasers are a sort of disruptor, hyperspace is transwarp, SW shields and ST shields have the same abilities, the Force is a kind of psionic skill or some sort of cosmic awareness, and so on. Requires some effort, but allows for much more balanced confrontations. I also suspect that in this case SW would be really advantaged (they are the ones with the kilometers long starships, after all).

[Sarge]

In the end, it all boils down to opinions. If you want the Enterprise to punch holes right through Star Destroyers, it will. If you want the Executor to blow away the Klingon fleet with one broadside, it will. Argue for your own position if you want to, but no one has to accept it and when it's all over, everyone will still go home believing what he wants to.

[Tobian]

Well it's like I always say... Don't mix universes... Sure be inspired, as great stories are great stories.. but not everything is compatible. That and SW VS ST is VERy fanboiish, something that usually makes me run away screaming!

[Owen E Oulton]

But, hey, let's face it! We are fanboys. SWvsST is a guilty pleasure we all share. As Phoenix pointed out, I'm currently running a crossover adventure. I'm making some assumptions based (mostly) on the SW OT, but many of them stray away from the subject matter of Spacedock. Let's take it over to the Narrator's Ready Room, where it'll be more on-topic, if only slightly.

Link: http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...953#post175953