Pardition's Flame - USS Potemkin

[IceGiant]

So what would starfleet do with the potemkin? I expect that while the crew was getting acquainted with the 24th century and getting therapy the ship would be getting a going over. But I feel that in the midst of the dominion war they would send her back into action after a couple months of minor repair/refit to do patrol work in behind the lines areas.

Thoughts?

[Calastir]

No way. In 'Star Trek III: Search for Spock', Fleet Admiral Harry Morrow suggests to Kirk that ships are decommissioned after a 20 year period, and the Enterprise had been refitted 20 years before, but was actually 40 years old at that time.

According to the scenario of 'Perdition's Flames', The Potemkin had been lost for 71 years, so it was almost twice as old.

Plus I can't think of any old Constitution-class ships which survived the 23rd century. In 'Relics', Picard tells Scotty: "There's one in the Fleet Museum, but...but then, of course, this is *your* Enterprise.", so apparently there are definitely none of those old type Constitution-class ships in service in the TNG era, or at least after 2369.

The Dominion war lasted from 2373 to 2375. They're not going to fly ships that old into war, not unless Starfleet's desperate and they're rigged for explosion.

[IceGiant]

Except according to the adventure she's in perfect working order. And during the war they are desperate. Their losing ships at a horrific rate. Other example, the USS constellation at least in dialogue is still in service in the DS9 era. That makes her almost as old as the Potemkin. So I think it's possible, though like I said put her in a reserve fleet or planetary defense group.

And it would be alot easier to recrew her with her exsisting crew that trying to retrain them on new systems.

[Calastir]

Good point, though like Picard says at the end of 'Generations' amidst the wreckage of the Enterprise-D; "Somehow I doubt this will be the last ship to carry the name Enterprise."

The same thing could've happened to the USS Constellation off-screen; same name, different starship - which I think more likely.

Flying a +71-year old starship during the Dominion war; it'd be like flying a B-17 Flying Fortress into war tomorrow.

[clblank]

In the Next Generation all the way through to the movies there has been Miranda class and Excelsior class vessels making appearances. The deciding factors for decommissioning the ship would include the condition of the superstructure and how much work it would take to overhaul out of date systems.
An example in real life of an a military aircraft that is old and slated to go for quite a while yet is the B52. It's upgraded over the years but it's been around 1946 and is planned to go until 2040.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

The Miranda and Sydney classes are in wide use. LaForge and Geordi have this exact discussion at 3:00 in.

Flying a +71-year old starship during the Dominion war; it'd be like flying a B-17 Flying Fortress into war tomorrow.

I'm not sure that comparison works; starship combat in the 23rd and 24th centuries seems to consist of mainly the same behaviour and weaponry. There's no similarities to the technological differences between the unguided projectiles of WWII (turrets!) and the missiles that dominate air combat today. In fact (if Dogfights is any indication) modern aerial combat resembles space combat in TOS the most. Battles seem to happen at the extreme edge of sensor range, or in high-speed strafing runs. TNG starships pummel each other into submission. If I were to offer a possible, non-FX explanation, maybe the power generation of TNG-era starships allows them to pump way more energy into their shields, making them capable of withstanding prolongued fire at close range. So the main upgrade needed would be a modern shield grid.

Anyway, while there may be no B-17s in active military service, there's still plenty of DC-3s flying in commercial airlines. Starfleet might put her into service as an armed transport ship, or a medivac or rescue vessel. Or just break her down for parts–plenty of the parts inside could fit inside contemporary designs. Power conversion would probably be a hassle.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

The same thing could've happened to the USS Constellation off-screen;

Or the Potemkin herself.

[PGoodman13]

There are, as I recall, a lot of indications that several refit Connies were put back into service in the Dominion War. Someone told me once that they actually saw one in one of the mass fleet shots on DS9, but I've never done a frame-by-frame looking for it.

Picard's remarks to Scott in the holodeck recreation might be referring to a pre-refit Connie in the fleet museum, but there were a lot of ships of this class that were just plain retired and moth-balled. Considering the desperation the Federation was feeling at the time, it would have been foolish not to reactivate the class. Lots of things they could do, and not all of it behind the lines. The class was legendary for a host of reasons besides being the class the most famous of the Enterprises came from.

[IceGiant]

Or the Potemkin herself.

And the 2293 entry is where I assume they got the begining for the adventure

[IceGiant]

As a slight sidebar, I think it would be interesting to play the adventure from the crew of the Ptemkins point of view. You'd have to tweak it slightly to allow them some leeway in their actions but that could be easily explained by the crew of the Blackthorne showing up.

[Owen E Oulton]

There were Connie parts seen in the wreckage following the Battle of Wolf 359, and Mirandas were contemporaries of the Connie. There were plenty of Mirandas in the Dominion War... As noted in Relics, Federation technology hasn't progressed a whole lot in the last century, so the Potemkin shouldn't be beyond hope...

[Pericles]

If nothing else, the old Connies could be re-classed as patrol craft or some other humiliating downgrade of status from heavy cruiser and used in extremely backwater parts of the Federation far from the front. Using the old girl this way, would free up a more modern ship to move to the front. Look at the old WW1 four-piper destroyers converted to minesweepers and fast transports during WW2 as an example of options.

[IceGiant]

I don't see her in that light anymore after rewatching Leforge's comments. Her phasers are comparabe to those used by other ships in service. Her launchers are fine, just load the newer torpedoe's. Her warp drive in MCU's (going by starships) is 5/7/9.2. Again comparable to older but still in service ships. Her shields would probably be equivelant to the miranda classes that they still use (and admittedly blow up easily). All in all I'd say they'd have no problem putting her back in service and attached to a fleet.

[selek]

It should also be noted that Enterprise CVN-65 is almost fifty one years old- having commissioned in 1961.

She is slated for decommissioning in 2013- but if something happens to delay the launch and commissioning of the Gerald R. Ford CVN-78, Enterprise could serve considerably longer.

Overall, the differences between Enterprise and Gerald R. Ford- like the differences between Potemkin and the Enterprise-E, are incremental rather than revolutionary.

CVN-65 is at the end of her string not because she's fifty years old, but because she's been active for all that time. She's not obsolete- she's worn out.

Had Enterprise been mothballed for forty of those years, there would be no question about returning her to service.

In other words, it's not the years, it's the mileage.

Potemkin might be seventy years old chronologically- but she's skipped all the mileage that those years entail.

Captain Bateson and the crew of the U.S.S. Bozeman NCC-1941 might have been more than a hundred years old according to the calendar- but physically speaking, they were still young men.

Potemkin herself would be little different- if her systems are still functional and her hull is still sound, she can still serve.

Another telling comment comes from the TNG episode "Relics"- when Geordi points out that if it weren't for all the structural damage, Jenolan might still have been in service.

No- it is perfectly plausible that Potemkin be returned to service.

[Calastir]

That's because Geordie will try to cheer up an old man. The Jem'Hadar and the Cardassians however, will not.

Don't forget that the Potemkin had been in orbit around RZ2-II for 71 years as well, taking her mileage.
And unless her shields were up during all that time, being pounded by all kinds of space debris and radiation as well, I'll wager.