Eugenics Wars "Genetic Supermen"

[PGoodman13]

Well, I said I'd put the stats for this up tonight, though my day kind of spiraled in and destroyed itself. I've got most of this written up in nice, pretty text with all the entries used in the species writeups in the books, but it's not really even close to done, so that's just going to have to wait. I'm going to throw the modifiers and species abilities and flaws out, and post the whole thing later, when I'm not so damned tired. At that time, I'll also discuss my rationale on the stats.

Some of the stats were derived from the fact that, well, they're humans. Edited, perhaps; maybe "enhanced" is a better word. But at the heart of it they're human, for better or for worse.

Species Adjustments: Str +2, Int +1, Prs -2. They were bred to be stronger and smarter than the rest of the herd, but their upbringing makes it harder for them to relate with normal human beings.

Species Abilities
Bonus Edges: Fit; Healthy
Species Flaws: Arrogant; Intolerant (Normal Humans); Species Enmity (Normal Humans)
Adaptable
The Human Spirit
Skilled

Pick Breakdown: Str +2 (10), Int +1 (5), Prs -2 (-10). Edges (4), Flaws (-6), Adaptable (6), Human Spirit (3), Skilled (4) = 16.

[CorpBoy]

I like the mini write-up, and am looking forward to the whole thing.

One question (to whomever may be able to answer): Based on this template, a "human" could reach strength 14. Is that sufficient (in game terms) to lift a human inside an EVA suit off the ground like we saw in Wrath of Khan?

[C5]

I think so. If a human in EVA suit weigh roughly 100 kg, then it correspond to an heavy load for someone with Str 14. It'd be like lifting 50 kg for a standard human... not very easy, but doable.

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by C5
I think so. If a human in EVA suit weigh roughly 100 kg, then it correspond to an heavy load for someone with Str 14. It'd be like lifting 50 kg for a standard human... not very easy, but doable.

Or, perhaps, Khan also has the Sherpa edge.

[Sea Tyger]

It is a good writeup; however, I'm not sure the Species Enmity and Intolerance against normal humans is entirely appropriate. Yes, Khan is superior and he knows it. This "confidence" manifests itself in a desire to conquer and rule others. If you recall in "Space Seed," Khan had a genuine respect for Kirk in the end, not because of the fight, but because he gave Khan the chance to tame a new world. I know its only one example, but I don't think Khan would have been as respectful to Kirk with those two flaws.

In TWoK, his entire focus was revenge agianst the man he believed responsible for his wife's death. I just don't see those two flaws being appropriate to Khan.

I also feel that the -2 Prs is excessive. At best it would be -1, and I would argue that their leadership qualities would counter any presence penalties they might have. Do you think Khan maxed out at a 10 Presence? His has to be 12, at the very least.

Perhaps instead of Species Enmity and Intolerance, a 3-4 point flaw that epitomizes their insatiable lust for conquest...a genetic drive to dominate others around them. (It would be an enhanced version of humanity's own drive to master their environment.)

Either way, the Eugenics supermen should be worth at least 20 picks...to be honest, they should probably be somewhere around 25 picks...and left outside the realm of PC playability.

Of course, these are just my thoughts on the matter. It is a good writeup.

[Darth Sarcastic]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger


Or, perhaps, Khan also has the Sherpa edge.

I tend to think that all of the supermen would have the Sherpa edge. I realize that the "Eugenics Wars" books are not considered cannon...but if you read it you'll see that all the supermen/women were built the same way. Khan had two advantages that "may" have led him to be the head superman...1)He's got more ambition...a bigger ego perhaps and 2) His own mother was the head of the project. The bit about his mother may be moot (as I haven't finished the first book), but I definately believe his ego was a factor...just check out TWOK.

[PGoodman13]

I'll deal with this more when I'm less slammed at work and a great deal farther away from slipping into a coma. However, I can explain a little bit before I have to get back to what I was doing.

The Intolerant and Species Enmity flaws: One can admire and respect individuals and still not have any respect for the herd; this works both ways. Kirk admired much of what Khan was noted for, in spite of Khan's record as a dictator in the 20th century. Khan admired Kirk for his tenacity and will, and for understanding that people like himself needed to conquer (thus Kirk basically giving Khan Ceti Alpha V rather than send him to prison). Neither particularly cared for the group the other belonged to. Most of the evidence we've seen of the supermen dealing with humans has been the supermen lording it over the humans and the humans being afraid of the supermen.

Intolerant (Normal Humans) seemed like a slam-dunk to me, especially given how I see them rising to power. Species Enmity (Humans) was also a slam-dunk to me given the reaction, even in the "enlightened" 24th century, to Julian Bashir revealing that he had been genetically resequenced.

I think they might be worth more picks, and even as they stand I don't think they should be used as a player race. I'd love to see your version, though, Davy.

Oh, and as far as the Presence goes? I don't have a problem seeing Khan at a 10. OTOH, Khan's exceptional and might be beyond that; the species modifier doesn't seem to be the all-powerful limit that it's said to be. Spock had a 10 Presence, for instance, though that might be the only shred of his Human nature peeking through.

I don't have the Eugenics Wars novels, and probably wouldn't incorporate them even if I did.

More details later.

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by PGoodman13
I think they might be worth more picks, and even as they stand I don't think they should be used as a player race. I'd love to see your version, though, Davy.

In the immortal words of Dr. McCoy, you asked for it. This is also quick and dirty, so please excuse the mess.

Attributes: +2 Str, +1 Int, +1 Vit, -1 Prs

Bonus Edges: Eidetic Memory, Sherpa

Other Abilities: Adaptable ability (human ability), Physically Fit (Security Officer professional ability)

Bonus Flaw: Arrogant

Special Restriction: Conquerer: Driven by an insatiable will to rule, the Eugenic has difficulty relating to those not subject to his will. (Suffers a -4 penalty to all Influence, Negotiate and Persuade tests against such beings. The Eugenic may spend a courage point in each instance to negate this effect.)

Pick Breakdown: Attributes (+15), Edges (+4), Abilities (+9), Flaw (-2), Conquerer (-3). Total: 23 picks.

[Hugh Casey]

I would use the "Genetic Resequencing" package from the character creation rules as a base, and go from there.

I have a player who wants to be one of the "supermen"... the backstory is that there was another ship that launched before Kahn's (and it's where Kahn got the idea... not that he would ever admit it). Most of the crew were "supermen" who opposed Kahn, or at least thought very little of him (after all, the man showed NO subtlety!)

The player wants to be someone who feels sorry for what happened... sort of a hermit, trying to repent for other peoples sins.

We'll see where it goes.

We're going to use the GR package, though. I've ruled that Kahn was exceptional, even among the supermen.

Hugh

[RaconteurX]

Both write-ups are very cool, although in my opinion Sea Tyger's perhaps hits the mark a trifle better. The "Conqueror" flaw is just too spiffy.

[Thierry]

Originally posted by PGoodman13
Well, I said I'd put the stats for this up tonight, though my day kind of spiraled in and destroyed itself. I've got most of this written up in nice, pretty text with all the entries used in the species writeups in the books, but it's not really even close to done, so that's just going to have to wait. I'm going to throw the modifiers and species abilities and flaws out, and post the whole thing later, when I'm not so damned tired. At that time, I'll also discuss my rationale on the stats.

Some of the stats were derived from the fact that, well, they're humans. Edited, perhaps; maybe "enhanced" is a better word. But at the heart of it they're human, for better or for worse.

Species Adjustments: Str +2, Int +1, Prs -2. They were bred to be stronger and smarter than the rest of the herd, but their upbringing makes it harder for them to relate with normal human beings.

Species Abilities
Bonus Edges: Fit; Healthy
Species Flaws: Arrogant; Intolerant (Normal Humans); Species Enmity (Normal Humans)
Adaptable
The Human Spirit
Skilled

Pick Breakdown: Str +2 (10), Int +1 (5), Prs -2 (-10). Edges (4), Flaws (-6), Adaptable (6), Human Spirit (3), Skilled (4) = 16.

Can this be converted to Icon.

[Perrryyy]

Davy,

Can you give me a point breakdown? I just don't understand how you got 23 points.

Thanks

[Erik Filean]

Originally posted by PGoodman13
Well, I said I'd put the stats for this up tonight, though my day kind of spiraled in and destroyed itself. I've got most of this written up in nice, pretty text with all the entries used in the species writeups in the books, but it's not really even close to done, so that's just going to have to wait. I'm going to throw the modifiers and species abilities and flaws out, and post the whole thing later, when I'm not so damned tired. At that time, I'll also discuss my rationale on the stats.

Some of the stats were derived from the fact that, well, they're humans. Edited, perhaps; maybe "enhanced" is a better word. But at the heart of it they're human, for better or for worse.

Species Adjustments: Str +2, Int +1, Prs -2. They were bred to be stronger and smarter than the rest of the herd, but their upbringing makes it harder for them to relate with normal human beings.

Species Abilities
Bonus Edges: Fit; Healthy
Species Flaws: Arrogant; Intolerant (Normal Humans); Species Enmity (Normal Humans)
Adaptable
The Human Spirit
Skilled

Pick Breakdown: Str +2 (10), Int +1 (5), Prs -2 (-10). Edges (4), Flaws (-6), Adaptable (6), Human Spirit (3), Skilled (4) = 16.

Not bad. As a matter of personal taste, I would omit "The Human Spirit" as a species ability. Personal liberty, free will and self-determination seem pretty clearly to be characteristic of "The Human Spirit" depicted in ST, and the supermen have equally clearly been placed in opposition to those ideals.

[Doug Burke]

I don't know, Erik. The description of The Human Spirit in the PG says it reflects athe humans' "unique spirit, drive and versatility". Khan and his followers did not seem to have lost that sort of characteristic to me.

Also, let me say that I am of a "Less is usually more" attitude about species templates. It makes perfect sense for a modified human to be based very closely off the human template.

And as for starting with the Genetic Resequencing Background Package, I would say that some (like Khan for example) who were exemplary specimens should take the package in addition to the abilities suggested.

If (when) I use Genetic Supermen, I'll most likely be using Patrick's template.

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by Perrryyy
Can you give me a point breakdown? I just don't understand how you got 23 points.

Strength: 10
Vitality: 5
Intellect: 5
Presence: -5
Eidetic Memory: 2
Sherpa: 2
Adaptable: 6
Physically Fit: 3
Arrogant: -2
Conquerer: -3

23 picks