Thoughts on an "average" Starfleet career.

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Originally Posted by spshu

Ops does not regular do navigation. It had more to do with communication, allocating resources (who gets to use the sensors), etc.

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"Mr Data, lay in a course for ...."

I only go by what I see. :)

Of course, if you want the real reason for an "Ops" position in the TNG era, it's that someone in the Data makeup looked terrible dressed in blue, so they had to scrub the idea of him being the Science Officer. :)

I don't have any of the "Companion" books, but the Encyclopedia credits "Encounter at Farpoint" as establishing Worf's position on the Enterprise as "flight control officer (conn)". If that's wrong, that's where my mistake comes from. :)

(Ironicly, the term for that is "encyclopedic error": one source gets it wrong, then dozens reprint the wrong information relying on the accuracy of the original source.)

More much for the waters:

In 2368, Nova Squadron at the Academy made some reckless choices and then, under the orders of their lead Cadet, kept quiet about it. When the truth came out, the leader assumed full responsability and resigned, and the rest of them got sentanced to repeat their current year.

Wesley was a Sophomore at that point, so he spent 2369 as a sophomore as well, and was a Junior when he resigned in 2370. (If he hadn't repeated a year, he'd have been in Harry Kim's class).
Sito Jaxa was one of those Nova Squadron Cadets, so she spent 2369 repeating whatever year she'd been in in 2368.
By a date in 2370, Ensign Sito Jaxa had been serving aboard USS Enterprise for several months, and (if the Encyclopedia can be trusted on this) was up for promotion!
Pretty good for a Security Ensign with a black mark on her record who has never met the Captain. :eek: (even if he did specificly request her)

I think I put that down to the writers losing track of time. :)

Hey, thought I would bring this thread up and back on track . . . sorry for being the one to derail it. But I have a question what unusual circumstances kept ENS H. Kim from being promoted past his entry level rank? If we assume Time in Service is one of the key factors, and that he did not have any administrative holds on his promotion progression, should he had been midway through his LT (j.g.) term by the time they got back to Earth?

I mean I understand that the Kim that got to Earth was an alternative reality version of the "Real" one . . . much like SCPO O'Brien is . . .
I understand that he found his way to the brig once or twice . . . but was that enough to keep his rank at ENS for 7 years?
Were his evaluation reports that bad by CMDR Chakotay that the only reason that he wasn't discharged was the fact that they were in the Delta Quadrant?

Given that there are enlisted servicemembers what is their "Usual" promotion track?
Do they have technical and command ranks? Are there enlisted command advisors? Do those have multiple ranks for the same position (such as the 3 different versions of first sergeant in the USAF)?

*coughnecro*

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Originally Posted by JALU3

To bad they never used any lowcost advisors . . . I can imagine alot of the more experienced prior service individuals here, of which I am not that experienced (IMHO), willing to do it for a couple walk on roles and basic cost of living.

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RDM was in the navy for a bit, and he seemed to be the guy bringing in most of the military-isms. Roddenberry, by TNG's time, had gone a bit utopia-loony.

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Originally Posted by JALU3

I mean I understand that the Kim that got to Earth was an alternative reality version of the "Real" one . . . much like SCPO O'Brien is . . .
I understand that he found his way to the brig once or twice . . . but was that enough to keep his rank at ENS for 7 years?

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Was the viewership actually strong enough to keep Voyager on TV for seven years?

These are the mysteries of the cosmos...

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

Was the viewership actually strong enough to keep Voyager on TV for seven years?

These are the mysteries of the cosmos...

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Scary huh? I mean 1995-2001.

But back on the enlisted servicemember "usual" career . . .

Back in the day with the Utopian Roddenberry there were suppose to be no enlisted . . . everyone is an officer. Must have been a lot of over-educated under appretiated ensigns running around.

Then with the movies you start seeing enlisted crewmembers in the background. That's right, those strait up specialist, good at their job, salt of the earth, don't you call me Sir I work for a living type.
But they began to deminish in stature during TNG . . . only to be brought to the forefront with SCPO O'Brien.

So how long did it take him to make E-8?
He joined up in 2346, and ended up being assigned to SFA in 2375 . . . just short of 30 years in his last canon reference.

In 2364 he was a CPO (E-7), and somewhere between the second (2370) and fourth season (2372) he was promoted to SCPO . . . if using the USN style of his rank he would be a MMCS right?

That means it was 18 years to make CPO, and an additional 8 years until he was promoted to SCPO . . . and since he wasn't promoted to MCPO than it at least as much time to be promoted to that.

However, if it works anything like in real life there shouldn't be any automatic promotions post Crewman/Seaman (E-3) if keeping the navy tradition . . . and one can be a PO3 for 8 years from Initial Entry Date (if the present rules apply (and there once was a time when someone could be a career PO3 (OMG!!!))).

Assuming that without administrative holds, that TIS (time in service) requirements are 0 months for Crewman Recruits, 6 months for Crewman Apprentice, and 12 months for Crewman . . . without a command waiver for faster promotions . . . that means from Cn to MMC it takes 17 years to go through the Petty Officer Ranks. That's about 5 years in each petty officer rank (E-4 to E-6).

Must be a hard MOS to be promoted in. If I remember correctly promotion scores needed to reach the next rank are determined by your Rate/MOS.
Therefore you can have a younger SFC 11B than a SFC 68W.

So the breakdown from the information we have is

IET . . . Ct (Constructionman Trainie)
1/2 year . . . Ca (Constructionman Apprentiace)
1 year . . . Cn (Constuctionman)
2 years . . . MM3 (Mechanics Mate 3rd Class)
8 years . . . MM2 (Mechanics Mate 2nd Class)
13 years . . . MM1 (Mechanics Mate 1st Class)
18 years . . . MMC (Chief Mechanics Mate)
26 years . . . MMCS (Senior Chief Mechanics Mate)

This makes sense to me . . . usually most Chiefs get their either within 5-7 years before making their 20, and those who go beyond their 20 and are still moving up through the Selection Boards (which at Chief go servicewide) usually have more than 20, with MCPOs getting close to 30 or having already reached it.

There's also the politics involved once you go to the servicewide selection boards . . . that go beyond your personel file and promotion packet.

So what rank do you think he'd be when serving as tactical officer on the Rutledge?

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

So what rank do you think he'd be when serving as tactical officer on the Rutledge?

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I forgot that he started in tactical, and his history stated that he was assigned to the USS Rutledge from post BCT/AIT (assuming he wasn't a striker and went to a C or A School (not being Navy I need some clarification on how this works)) in 2346 until at least 2347 . . . meaning he possibly was a Sa, St, and a Sn than a GM3, FC3, or MA3. . . that means he must have re-classed sometime before becoming a CPO. He probably made PO3 aboard the Rutledge . . . and was transferred when he was promoted to PO2, or went to another C School to change his rating.