Delta Federation.

So. Star Trek; Voyager.

Cut a swath through the delta quadrant, and often left planets with a sunnier outlook of a better future than before, along with making a few friends along the way.

And this left the germ of an idea in my mind.

What if they sparked a revolution back in the Delta Quadrant, what if Neelix convinced his fellow Talaxians to work towards similar goals? Hell, they left him with a working knowledge of a fair amount of Federation technologies, as well as the means to remain in contact (at least thats the insinuation...) So why not even develop as a Delta Quadrant ally/arm of the Federation. Even if such an organistion might be loosely connected over significant distances...

So. Taking the Talaxians as core members, who else might be up for starting a Federation-lite out there in the Delta quadrant?

The Ocampa? Well, they would have to get out of their underground cities sooner or later, and seeing as how the Talaxians are out there and were friendly, its likely they might be first founders as it were.

Oddly, I think the Vidiians might be up-for-it. There is a throw away line in the episode Think Tank that states that they cured the Phage. And without the Phage the Vidiians would be rather advanced technically, but with a particularly bad reputation. Maybe they would work towards the commin good?

The 39's and Borg Cooperative? Alpha and Beta quadrant species displaced out in the Delta Quadrant. Some even from the original Federation...

So. Over to a group discussion.

Who else might sign up to a 'Delta Federation' and why?

Isn't Neelix on a colony 10 000 light-years from the Ocampa planet?

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

Isn't Neelix on a colony 10 000 light-years from the Ocampa planet?

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Why yes. And if memory serves he is with another group of Talaxians, of course this isalready linked into the original post where I had said that;

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...such an organistion might be loosely connected over significant distances...

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I like the idea of having a Federation ally in the Delta Quadrant.

I was thinking of something similar several years ago... a confederation of worlds - maybe a trade alliance with some mutual defense agreements at first - with Talax at the center. I'd probably include the Phage-free Vidiians and perhaps the Trabe (with a new homeworld established some distance from Kazon-controlled space), but maybe the Turei Alliance as well (who, with their working knowledge of the subspace corridors, could make the extreme distances somewhat less of a problem).

There are several other races that could be included: several of the races shown (or mentioned) in "Year of Hell" were technologically-advanced and appeared amenable to such an arrangement. You could also consider the potato-headed spies or the race represented by Tank Girl.

Play the Kazon up as a primary enemy, maybe giving them some upgraded technologies.

Please keep us posted.

mactavish out.

This is an idea that I had as well. An AR version of a Delta FED appears in the Myriad Universes book 'Infinities Prism': in that, things in "Scorpion" don't go so well: Voyager is pretty much destroyed, and the crew finds shelter amoung various races, eventually bringing them together to deal with....well that would be telling.

There were alot of races that might make for some interesting members. One of my favorites, the Voth, don't seem like joiners though: they seem more like they would be almost a patron of a fledgling group, if it didn't violate their beliefs.

The Kazon would be a good choice for an early on enemy (although I could see weaker clans wanting to join, if only to subvert it), and steer clear of the Borg and Species 8472. The Hirogen might also be a good enemy race, or possible ally, but that one would be stretch (if they make friends with the other races, who will they hunt?). Also, there's always the chance that something brought to the DQ by either the Caretaker or some other means could be lurking about.

Hey, I don't remember anything about that one race (or couple of races) that used holograms as servents? They might be useful (or their free holo's might ask the DQ for asylum)!

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Originally Posted by Dan Gurden

Who else might sign up to a 'Delta Federation' and why?

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What about these species who allied with Janeway in UFP vers. 2.0 in "The Void". They could spread the word about the Federation and their ideals (the Charta was their basis as well in the void). And they already saw the advantages of such a union.

Allied species from the Void episode! That is a good one. Who better to show what working together can accomplish. Honestly, I can see the Federation heading back into the Delta. 1. You really don't want to just sit back and let the Borg build up for another assault. Take the fight back to them and that means reestablishing all of those contacts again. 2. You know the Diplomats and Explorers are going to want to head back out there.

But you do bring up a good point about the distance problem. We do know that several Borg ships now operate independently now because of the Civil War. Maybe they can help establish communication. There is that species in First Season that can teleport back and forth vast distances. Maybe by convincing them that if they allow access to the tech (or set up transport sites to bring people and trade back and forth) They find stories of 1000s of civilizations out there for them.

Oh and one more thought, if anyone likes the Star Trek Online timeline for the Federation's future. The Romulans are trying to make contact and arrangements with the Hirogen. That will certainly help to motivate interest to hit the Delta.

Anyway, I hope this helps stir up some ideas.

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Originally Posted by Dan Gurden

Why yes. And if memory serves he is with another group of Talaxians, of course this isalready linked into the original post where I had said that;

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Yeah, but unless Voyager left a special slipstream batmobile shuttle, loosely connected might be a generous term.

Maybe if they got the Hirogen array network working again?

OK, so lets play with the idea a little.

Voyager returns to the Alpha Quadrant, in doing so it brings back some seriously advanced tech. We now have over 30 years jump in tactical systems overnight, and several centuries advances in holographics. Not to mention all the data gathered during various transits through the Borg Conduits, Quantum Slipstreams and verious other Faster than FTL means. Enough data was gathered that they managed a partially succesful slipstream experiment. And all that bvefore the fusion of Federation and Borg technologies. All that was managed with just a single Starship crew and the facilities aboard an explorer starship.

Now with all that data and tech, we have to face the fact that upon their return to the Federation, bigger minds and more facilities will become available… Even if the Temporal prime Directive was enforced, the fact that all this technology had been used on the Borg already would mean that Starfleet would need to adapt as much as it could in order to counter the Borgs adaptations.

So. Lets fast-forward a few years.

In the meantime Starfleet has remained in contact with the Delta Quadrant using long-range comms, and has found that Neelix has been working hard where he was dropped off, brokering a peaceful alliance between the Talaxian Colonists and the miners. But more than that, he has been working to spread the ideals that were so welcoming during his time aboard Voyager, and has worked on building a small alliance locally, including the Heirarchy (potato heads), the planet from Workforce and even some of the others from the Void… This alliance could be going great guns based on the founding of the Federation and with the less than covert support of Admiral Janeway in sector 001 they may even be working towards Federation membership (which would get them access to the technological toys too).

Why cant Starfleet make some slipstream ships designed specifically to aid in the exploration and founding of this Delta Federation, and to help spread the word back along the path of the USS Voyager to help out some of those friends that were left behind?

Come on, that could be a kick-arse game setup...

I think that you should also include (in some fashion) the Hirogen communication network. It spans the Delta and Beta quadrants and could provide regular and reliable communications (including technical data, schematics, etc.).

Oh yes, and the Voth, too. They'd probably actually be pretty leery of a quadrant-spanning government...

mactavish out.

The hologram colony might also be an obvious ally, as well. In a few years time, it's possible they might have begun experimenting with the stranger permutations of what 'holographic life' could be.

If this game were being played from a Federation perspective, the Think Tank could be manipulating the creation of a quadrant-spanning government to their advantage.

What would be most interesting, however, would be the different cultures' strange modus operandi. For example, the Talaxians have no military to speak of; most of the potential alliance members don't seem to have much in the way of a space fleet. The Hierarchy is all about stealth and cost-benefit rations. So, if one of their worlds is being menaced by a Devore fleet, would they hire guys like the Think Tank or the Hazari to defeat them for them? Or how would their attitudes toward non-interference develop in a quadrant with apparently few pre-contact cultures and a recent history of personally-positive Federation interference?

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Originally Posted by Dan Gurden

OK, so lets play with the idea a little.

Voyager returns to the Alpha Quadrant, in doing so it brings back some seriously advanced tech. We now have over 30 years jump in tactical systems overnight, and several centuries advances in holographics.

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There's no way study or use of that technology would be permitted under the Temporal Prime Directive.

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

There's no way study or use of that technology would be permitted under the Temporal Prime Directive.

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Sure, on first glance the Temporal Prime Directive might well be in play, but who would be the ones enforcing it? Perhaps its a pre-destination paradox? Perhaps the 29th century timefleet is going to turn up and start kicking arse...

BUT, while I was whittling away at this idea, I started from that very viewpoint. And I believe the Temporal Prime Directive would have to be applied in exactly the same way as the Romulan treaty does with the cloaking device on the USS Defiant. Because the armaments tech was used agaist the Borg on their way through and thus adaptation has already begun. Now if you want the Federation to pretend it doesn't have this advanced tech and allow the Borg a leap of 30+ years against current Federation weapons then you are likely to be a drone in short order...

Then of course there are other interested parties who would all want a piece of this high tech action through fair means or foul, from the Tal Shiar through to Section 31.

The genie is out of the bottle, and while there will indeed be those arguing for the self-enforcement of the Temporal Prime Directive, there are likely to be many more suggesting that there might be the possibility that these advancements were gained through time travel, just like the invention of transparent aluminium back in the 20th century...

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Originally Posted by Dan Gurden

Sure, on first glance the Temporal Prime Directive might well be in play, but who would be the ones enforcing it?

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These guys. : P

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Perhaps its a pre-destination paradox? Perhaps the 29th century timefleet is going to turn up and start kicking arse...

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At the very least. Not necessarily because of adm. janeway's super-laz0rz, but the next thing...

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Now if you want the Federation to pretend it doesn't have this advanced tech and allow the Borg a leap of 30+ years against current Federation weapons then you are likely to be a drone in short order...

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Well, that's also assuming no one has a problem with Janeway attempting to commit genocide–the same act that Picard decided against almost ten years earlier. Oh, and hey, what if the Borg of the 29th century object to their 'ancestors' getting deleted by a madwoman.

Another thing. Once the TPD is contravened once, and the result is allowed to stand, the precedent is there for Starfleet (or S31) to start 'accidentally' traveling to the future for technology-fishing expeditions (they've had the capability for over a century!*), or busting out Preserver artefacts and zapping asteroids across sectors. The Prime Directive isn't just ideological–there's all sorts of possible consequences of using technology you do not understand. Earth and Vulcan have mass graves that are a testament to the misuse of technology whose scientific principles were understood. If the Federation embraced hypocrisy to benefit from a few extra toys...

And, frankly, I'm not sure most Vulcans on the science council will think thirty years is that long to wait for batmobile armour.

Starfleet ethics aside, I also would rather Timefleet have deleted Admiral Janeway because, well... batmobile armour. Ugh.

*The fact that Janeway needed to buy off some Klingon to get the Time Tunnel means that someone is keeping the gravity-whoosh-time-warp procedure under very tight wraps. Probably because of the threat of that very thing...

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

Another thing. Once the TPD is contravened once, and the result is allowed to stand, the precedent is there for Starfleet (or S31) to start 'accidentally' traveling to the future for technology-fishing expeditions (they've had the capability for over a century!*), or busting out Preserver artefacts and zapping asteroids across sectors. The Prime Directive isn't just ideological–there's all sorts of possible consequences of using technology you do not understand. Earth and Vulcan have mass graves that are a testament to the misuse of technology whose scientific principles were understood. If the Federation embraced hypocrisy to benefit from a few extra toys...

And, frankly, I'm not sure most Vulcans on the science council will think thirty years is that long to wait for batmobile armour.

Starfleet ethics aside, I also would rather Timefleet have deleted Admiral Janeway because, well... batmobile armour. Ugh.

*The fact that Janeway needed to buy off some Klingon to get the Time Tunnel means that someone is keeping the gravity-whoosh-time-warp procedure under very tight wraps. Probably because of the threat of that very thing...

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OK, starting to get the impression that most of this is a general objection due to Janeway/Voyager.

But you state that the TPD must be obeyed and never deviated from. I suppose the next game is to start listing off the various occasions when that wasn't the case. Kirk was pretty cavalier about the whole issue of altering the past... As were later captains, often creating whole new timelin es or correcting mistakes based on nothing more than a hunch that it might work out alright...

And as for the consequences of doing so, where it might lead to some kind of 'temporal cold war'... Such issues would be ideal for an RPG environment, not to mention semmingly canon in the genre too now...

BTW. I agree with most of these points, but the actual point of the thread that I wanted to discuss wasn't the finer points of temporal relativity, but instead the hypothetical scenario of whom might make a decent candiadte for a Federation clone in the Delta quadrant?

We just happened to provide the backgound of Enterprise and develop a campaign setting first...

Ultimately, I think the Kazon would be a good target for the ∆Fed to court early on–they have a constant lack of resources or advanced technology and a history of oppression by aliens, and their own tribal leaders. A number of Kazon would probably desert if given the opportunity to eat well for a week.

EDIT: Here's the master list of Delta Quadrant species. We might be able to go through point-by-point looking for candidates with interesting stories to tell...

I think, if there are any starting points of a Federation presence in the Delta quadrant, it wouldn't be Nelix, but with the ancestors of the 39's they are Human after all, and dependent on their level of technology, maybe able to begin long distance contact with their homeworld. I would imagine they would be like many of the original Human Colonies, as far as the Federation is concerned, and have a faster track towards official membership, if they so chose it, than other species within the Delta Quadrant.

There is the Borg Collective, which would probably be meet with misgivings regarding their Borg past, however, many are former Starfleeters, Klingon Defense Force Warriors, etc. And thus, if they could contact the Federation, would see it as almost a return to duty, rather than a new beginning.

We've also seen how the Promise of the Federation has been used by con folk, and how the promise of technology and stability and peace has a drawing power to bring species/governments into the fold. However, due to the fact that there were those unfulfilled promises, and even with the mending Voyager attempted to do, it may have left a sour taste in other peoples mouths, and thus quick expansion or even belief that the real thing is there, maybe taken with more than a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King

Ultimately, I think the Kazon would be a good target for the ∆Fed to court early on–they have a constant lack of resources or advanced technology and a history of oppression by aliens, and their own tribal leaders. A number of Kazon would probably desert if given the opportunity to eat well for a week.

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I like the idea that the Kazon might start as enemies and slowly be drawn into membership... Even if it were only a few of the smaller sects. And it had been mentioned that the Trabe refugees might also be suitable candidates earlier...

But would they be able to work together despite their mutual hatred and tendancy to stab each other in the back...

Actually, this starts to lean towards some of the thoughts I had been having, that it might be that the ∆Fed doesn't actually integrate planets and civilisations, but instead groups that want to work together for the benefit of many... That the Federation ideal might mutate and while a couple of planetary systems might sign up and offer a base of operations, that (at least at the beginning) it might actually be a rag-tag fleet working together in mutual co-operation...

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Originally Posted by Dan Gurden

I like the idea that the Kazon might start as enemies and slowly be drawn into membership... Even if it were only a few of the smaller sects. And it had been mentioned that the Trabe refugees might also be suitable candidates earlier...

But would they be able to work together despite their mutual hatred and tendancy to stab each other in the back...

Actually, this starts to lean towards some of the thoughts I had been having, that it might be that the ∆Fed doesn't actually integrate planets and civilisations, but instead groups that want to work together for the benefit of many... That the Federation ideal might mutate and while a couple of planetary systems might sign up and offer a base of operations, that (at least at the beginning) it might actually be a rag-tag fleet working together in mutual co-operation...

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Well then, what you are talking about is less about Federation Membership, as much as the introduction of a cohesive federation allies group, that are not necessarily Federation members, yet. Much as there is NATO, and was SEATO, each nation-state is independent, but provide mutual defense and other areas of cooperation within that framework, but are not legally fussed together under a single unbrella government.

I can see groups/species/sub-sects of species requesting membership to benifit from the tech rewards that come with membership, and for not much else. Will they use the tech for their own advancement, once they have it, or will the spirit of the Federation expand with the technology that is given to these new members? Who will judge the merits of the applications? How will they negotiate integreation, and other such things?

If this ∆Fed actually has membership focused on the community or individual level (instead of the planetary), then, this might lead to the crews of defeated hostile ships being offered the choice to become ∆Fed citizens personally. I'm sure Johnny Plasma-Scourer in the bowels of a Devore warship would jump at the chance...

It seems like it could be very similar to the interstellat alliance from B5. Groups of planets, races grouped together for mutual protection and exchenge of ideas/technology. Some will use it for good and other for "evil".

I thought evil was trademarked?

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Originally Posted by JALU3

I thought evil was trademarked?

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Trademarked and covered by top lawyers. Thats how evil it is!

IIRC, one of the requirements for UFP membership is the development of a unified world government. That could make it hard to integrate sub-groups or castes. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be different from the A Federation.

I guess the big question is this: where does this Delta Quadrant Federation lie? Is it where Neelix settled just prior to the end of the show? Is it back where Voyager first arrived? Is in near Borg-controlled space?

Depending on where this confederation of allied worlds arises, the membership would be fairly unique.

There are some groups that I think would be eager to join, whether for mutual protection (i.e. Trabe), for technological advancement (i.e. Kazon), for trade purposes (i.e. Talaxians), and so on. Others, like the Voth, the Devore Imperium, or the Malon, would probably be too isolated, hostile, or otherwise disinterested in joining such an organization.

A secondary [but perhaps nearly as important] question is this: what is the purpose of this alliance? Is it defensive? Research-based? Financial? Is it more than one of these?

Think about the founding of the Federation. The Vulcans had superior technologies that they were initially hesitant to share with their erstwhile allies, though they eventually came around. Which Delta Quadrant species would have enough advanced technology to make such an alliance possible, but also willing to share with those "less fortunate" races? I think that the Vidiians would have a technological advantage, but (as previously mentioned) their reputation is less than sterling. Everyone else in the region that Voyager arrived was technologically-inferior to the Federation (i.e. Ocampa, Kazon, Talaxians, etc.).

I thought that a Federation-style organization might be founded on the Ocampa's planet. In an effort to repel the Kazon sects, the Ocampa - now without their Caretaker - invites the Talaxians into a local alliance. The Talaxians manage to bring sufficient force to bear to chase the Kazon off, and then figure out enough about the Caretaker technology to install new power systems capable of operating them at at least some level.

As the center of a new alliance, this world would necessarily draw other locals into some sort of trading agreement, perhaps pieces of the Ocampa arcology's technology (like their food replicators) or items that they produce locally. With the help of some remorseful Vidiians, the planetary ecosystem might begin to recover through some sort of terraforming. The inclusion of the friendlier Vidiians would bring a much-needed technological boost to such an alliance.

The fourth member of such a group would probably be the Trabe (in my opinion), as they are at least somewhat advanced, have a large number of ships, and are willing to work with others to meet their own needs. If an alliance like this could offer them sanctuary from the Kazon, I think they'd jump at it.

So now you have the makings of a Federation. You have four races, each bringing something unique to the party. The Talaxians are merchants and traders, the Ocampa have the base of operations, the Vidiians have ships and advanced technologies, and the Trabe have ships as well as a real vested interest in making something like this work.

This leaves the Kazon - likely angered by the formation of an alliance including the Trabe - as a more unified threat. Multiple sects would join together, forming a Klingon-like threat, one that targets ship convoys and steals their stuff, but can't really be tied to a specific government or organization. Indeed, this has the makings of a parallel human-Romulan war...

I've given this a goodly amount of thought, and I think that something like this could certainly work. It would be rocky, as the Trabe would be more likely to act in their own interests instead of the other member races or the group as a whole. I think that they'd probably arrange circumstances that would lead to a war with the Kazon in an effort to either subjugate them or perhaps just exterminate them once and for all.

I've also often considered the Vaadwaur as a force in such a conflict, showing up and offering the Kazon their assistance in advancing their technology in exchange for a ready-made army to conquer the region. A Vaadwaur-led Kazon military force would be scary indeed, as even their 900-year-old technologies are still more advanced than the contemporary Kazon.

Now as for forming such an organization in another section of the Delta Quadrant, I'd definitely involve the Krenim (because I love them). I'd love to include the Voth (with their transwarp drive), but probably as an enemy, or at best a hostile neutral.

I would also definitely include the '37s if they were anywhere nearby.

Great thread. Keep it up.

mactavish out.

Another question is, what role do the alternate Janeway and Paris who were left a day back in the past after they saved that planet in the early first season play in this new federation? Surely the planet was technologically advanced enough that they could have invented a warp driven ship...

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Originally Posted by Owen E Oulton

Another question is, what role do the alternate Janeway and Paris who were left a day back in the past after they saved that planet in the early first season play in this new federation? Surely the planet was technologically advanced enough that they could have invented a warp driven ship...

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I always got the impression from the 'fade to whiteout' that the alt. janeway and Paris ceased to exist as their machinations altered the timeline so that the accident never occured and thus Voyager never turned up to investigate...

Of course that then goes right back into the Temporal Prime Directive that we have ALREADY had to split out of this thread once.

The DTI must love Janeway. They thought Kirk was a menace to the timeline until they started compiling her file...

So. You think that that these two remained on the planet in question sort-of like Thomas Riker clones? In which case would they be aware of being temporal clones? It might be that she would indeed be on-hand to spark things off over in the right sort of area...

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Originally Posted by Sarge

IIRC, one of the requirements for UFP membership is the development of a unified world government. That could make it hard to integrate sub-groups or castes. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be different from the A Federation.

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A ∆Fed wouldn't really have any historical context for that requirement. The truth is, a lot of the groups we're talking about being potential members don't seem to have a huge attachment to their planets. The Ocampa would need to get off their dead world by season 5' the Talaxian homeworld is under Haakonian rule; some Kazon sects have colonies, but the weaker sects may not; the Vidiian and Hierarchy homeworlds have never been mentioned. A ∆Fed would have to respond to the situation before them, in separating territory from citizenship, instead of basing their practices on something developed for a society on the other side of the galaxy.