Delta Federation.

[Dan Gurden]

BTW. I agree with most of these points, but the actual point of the thread that I wanted to discuss wasn't the finer points of temporal relativity, but instead the hypothetical scenario of whom might make a decent candiadte for a Federation clone in the Delta quadrant?

We just happened to provide the backgound of Enterprise and develop a campaign setting first...

[The Tatterdemalion King]

Ultimately, I think the Kazon would be a good target for the ∆Fed to court early on–they have a constant lack of resources or advanced technology and a history of oppression by aliens, and their own tribal leaders. A number of Kazon would probably desert if given the opportunity to eat well for a week.

EDIT: Here's the master list of Delta Quadrant species. We might be able to go through point-by-point looking for candidates with interesting stories to tell...

[JALU3]

I think, if there are any starting points of a Federation presence in the Delta quadrant, it wouldn't be Nelix, but with the ancestors of the 39's they are Human after all, and dependent on their level of technology, maybe able to begin long distance contact with their homeworld. I would imagine they would be like many of the original Human Colonies, as far as the Federation is concerned, and have a faster track towards official membership, if they so chose it, than other species within the Delta Quadrant.

There is the Borg Collective, which would probably be meet with misgivings regarding their Borg past, however, many are former Starfleeters, Klingon Defense Force Warriors, etc. And thus, if they could contact the Federation, would see it as almost a return to duty, rather than a new beginning.

We've also seen how the Promise of the Federation has been used by con folk, and how the promise of technology and stability and peace has a drawing power to bring species/governments into the fold. However, due to the fact that there were those unfulfilled promises, and even with the mending Voyager attempted to do, it may have left a sour taste in other peoples mouths, and thus quick expansion or even belief that the real thing is there, maybe taken with more than a grain of salt.

[Dan Gurden]

Ultimately, I think the Kazon would be a good target for the ∆Fed to court early on–they have a constant lack of resources or advanced technology and a history of oppression by aliens, and their own tribal leaders. A number of Kazon would probably desert if given the opportunity to eat well for a week.

I like the idea that the Kazon might start as enemies and slowly be drawn into membership... Even if it were only a few of the smaller sects. And it had been mentioned that the Trabe refugees might also be suitable candidates earlier...

But would they be able to work together despite their mutual hatred and tendancy to stab each other in the back...

Actually, this starts to lean towards some of the thoughts I had been having, that it might be that the ∆Fed doesn't actually integrate planets and civilisations, but instead groups that want to work together for the benefit of many... That the Federation ideal might mutate and while a couple of planetary systems might sign up and offer a base of operations, that (at least at the beginning) it might actually be a rag-tag fleet working together in mutual co-operation...

[JALU3]

I like the idea that the Kazon might start as enemies and slowly be drawn into membership... Even if it were only a few of the smaller sects. And it had been mentioned that the Trabe refugees might also be suitable candidates earlier...

But would they be able to work together despite their mutual hatred and tendancy to stab each other in the back...

Actually, this starts to lean towards some of the thoughts I had been having, that it might be that the ∆Fed doesn't actually integrate planets and civilisations, but instead groups that want to work together for the benefit of many... That the Federation ideal might mutate and while a couple of planetary systems might sign up and offer a base of operations, that (at least at the beginning) it might actually be a rag-tag fleet working together in mutual co-operation...

Well then, what you are talking about is less about Federation Membership, as much as the introduction of a cohesive federation allies group, that are not necessarily Federation members, yet. Much as there is NATO, and was SEATO, each nation-state is independent, but provide mutual defense and other areas of cooperation within that framework, but are not legally fussed together under a single unbrella government.

I can see groups/species/sub-sects of species requesting membership to benifit from the tech rewards that come with membership, and for not much else. Will they use the tech for their own advancement, once they have it, or will the spirit of the Federation expand with the technology that is given to these new members? Who will judge the merits of the applications? How will they negotiate integreation, and other such things?

[The Tatterdemalion King]

If this ∆Fed actually has membership focused on the community or individual level (instead of the planetary), then, this might lead to the crews of defeated hostile ships being offered the choice to become ∆Fed citizens personally. I'm sure Johnny Plasma-Scourer in the bowels of a Devore warship would jump at the chance...

[IceGiant]

It seems like it could be very similar to the interstellat alliance from B5. Groups of planets, races grouped together for mutual protection and exchenge of ideas/technology. Some will use it for good and other for "evil".

[JALU3]

I thought evil was trademarked?

[Dan Gurden]

I thought evil was trademarked?

Trademarked and covered by top lawyers. Thats how evil it is!

[Sarge]

IIRC, one of the requirements for UFP membership is the development of a unified world government. That could make it hard to integrate sub-groups or castes. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be different from the A Federation.

[mactavish]

I guess the big question is this: where does this Delta Quadrant Federation lie? Is it where Neelix settled just prior to the end of the show? Is it back where Voyager first arrived? Is in near Borg-controlled space?

Depending on where this confederation of allied worlds arises, the membership would be fairly unique.

There are some groups that I think would be eager to join, whether for mutual protection (i.e. Trabe), for technological advancement (i.e. Kazon), for trade purposes (i.e. Talaxians), and so on. Others, like the Voth, the Devore Imperium, or the Malon, would probably be too isolated, hostile, or otherwise disinterested in joining such an organization.

A secondary [but perhaps nearly as important] question is this: what is the purpose of this alliance? Is it defensive? Research-based? Financial? Is it more than one of these?

Think about the founding of the Federation. The Vulcans had superior technologies that they were initially hesitant to share with their erstwhile allies, though they eventually came around. Which Delta Quadrant species would have enough advanced technology to make such an alliance possible, but also willing to share with those "less fortunate" races? I think that the Vidiians would have a technological advantage, but (as previously mentioned) their reputation is less than sterling. Everyone else in the region that Voyager arrived was technologically-inferior to the Federation (i.e. Ocampa, Kazon, Talaxians, etc.).

I thought that a Federation-style organization might be founded on the Ocampa's planet. In an effort to repel the Kazon sects, the Ocampa - now without their Caretaker - invites the Talaxians into a local alliance. The Talaxians manage to bring sufficient force to bear to chase the Kazon off, and then figure out enough about the Caretaker technology to install new power systems capable of operating them at at least some level.

As the center of a new alliance, this world would necessarily draw other locals into some sort of trading agreement, perhaps pieces of the Ocampa arcology's technology (like their food replicators) or items that they produce locally. With the help of some remorseful Vidiians, the planetary ecosystem might begin to recover through some sort of terraforming. The inclusion of the friendlier Vidiians would bring a much-needed technological boost to such an alliance.

The fourth member of such a group would probably be the Trabe (in my opinion), as they are at least somewhat advanced, have a large number of ships, and are willing to work with others to meet their own needs. If an alliance like this could offer them sanctuary from the Kazon, I think they'd jump at it.

So now you have the makings of a Federation. You have four races, each bringing something unique to the party. The Talaxians are merchants and traders, the Ocampa have the base of operations, the Vidiians have ships and advanced technologies, and the Trabe have ships as well as a real vested interest in making something like this work.

This leaves the Kazon - likely angered by the formation of an alliance including the Trabe - as a more unified threat. Multiple sects would join together, forming a Klingon-like threat, one that targets ship convoys and steals their stuff, but can't really be tied to a specific government or organization. Indeed, this has the makings of a parallel human-Romulan war...

I've given this a goodly amount of thought, and I think that something like this could certainly work. It would be rocky, as the Trabe would be more likely to act in their own interests instead of the other member races or the group as a whole. I think that they'd probably arrange circumstances that would lead to a war with the Kazon in an effort to either subjugate them or perhaps just exterminate them once and for all.

I've also often considered the Vaadwaur as a force in such a conflict, showing up and offering the Kazon their assistance in advancing their technology in exchange for a ready-made army to conquer the region. A Vaadwaur-led Kazon military force would be scary indeed, as even their 900-year-old technologies are still more advanced than the contemporary Kazon.

Now as for forming such an organization in another section of the Delta Quadrant, I'd definitely involve the Krenim (because I love them). I'd love to include the Voth (with their transwarp drive), but probably as an enemy, or at best a hostile neutral.

I would also definitely include the '37s if they were anywhere nearby.

Great thread. Keep it up.

mactavish out.

[Owen E Oulton]

Another question is, what role do the alternate Janeway and Paris who were left a day back in the past after they saved that planet in the early first season play in this new federation? Surely the planet was technologically advanced enough that they could have invented a warp driven ship...

[Dan Gurden]

Another question is, what role do the alternate Janeway and Paris who were left a day back in the past after they saved that planet in the early first season play in this new federation? Surely the planet was technologically advanced enough that they could have invented a warp driven ship...

I always got the impression from the 'fade to whiteout' that the alt. janeway and Paris ceased to exist as their machinations altered the timeline so that the accident never occured and thus Voyager never turned up to investigate...

Of course that then goes right back into the Temporal Prime Directive that we have ALREADY had to split out of this thread once.

The DTI must love Janeway. They thought Kirk was a menace to the timeline until they started compiling her file...

So. You think that that these two remained on the planet in question sort-of like Thomas Riker clones? In which case would they be aware of being temporal clones? It might be that she would indeed be on-hand to spark things off over in the right sort of area...

[The Tatterdemalion King]

IIRC, one of the requirements for UFP membership is the development of a unified world government. That could make it hard to integrate sub-groups or castes. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be different from the A Federation.

A ∆Fed wouldn't really have any historical context for that requirement. The truth is, a lot of the groups we're talking about being potential members don't seem to have a huge attachment to their planets. The Ocampa would need to get off their dead world by season 5' the Talaxian homeworld is under Haakonian rule; some Kazon sects have colonies, but the weaker sects may not; the Vidiian and Hierarchy homeworlds have never been mentioned. A ∆Fed would have to respond to the situation before them, in separating territory from citizenship, instead of basing their practices on something developed for a society on the other side of the galaxy.