Enterprise's "Bounty" more errors for ratings?

Sorry, but I gotta vent.

From TrekToday:

After contracting a virus on an away mission, T'Pol begins to prematurely experience severe symptoms of Pon Farr, the Vulcan mating cycle in which she has to mate or else die. She begins to make advances on Phlox as well as Reed in her burning desire to mate, forcing the crew to find a solution. Meanwhile, Archer is kidnapped by a bounty hunter who has been hired by the Klingons to bring him back to their planet where a bounty has been put on his head for escaping from their prison (from the "Judgment" episode).

:rolleyes:

Here we go agin. Hot Vulcan Babe™ + "in your face" sexual hijinx = ratings?

I thought only Vulcan MALES experienced the Pon Farr - it appeared to me T'Pring seemed in perfect control of herself when Spock entered the pon farr in "Amok Time", and they were supposed to be joined together.

Either you or this site is getting the episodes mixed up. This is "Bounty," being shown in two weeks, not "The Expanse." (the latter is the season finale.)

And as for T'pol's thing, have they ever actually said in the shows that it's only for Vulcan males? And the obvious solution is: if it bothers you that much, just don't watch it. It's as simple as that.

But I agree, it is kind of a stupid marketing trick. :rolleyes:

Isn't it in Star Trek III where Savvik says it?

Or was it in the actual TOS Ep Amok Time?

I was always lead to believe it was only the males and then Peter David changed it with Selar.

Any of the Trek experts know?

I certainly don't consider myself an expert but I also believed that only Vulcan males experienced Pon Farr, especially after having seen Amok Time.
If howerver both sexes undergo the cycle then the Vulcan tradition of arranged marriages would make sense. That way you can be sure that your offspring has a receptive partner when his or her time comes. Either only children of similar age have been selected to marry in the future or their cycles are synchronized during the process. If really females have Pon Farr, too, then arranged marriages might have been what helped the Vulcan race to survive.

"Oh, I'm sorry darling. I'm not in the mood, today. What about in three years." :D

Yep. As far as I had always been aware the Ponn Far was a male initiated thing. However, Voyager showed that once a male undergoes Ponn Far and begins the initiation of mating with the female, that said female also begins to exhibit symptons of the Blood Fever.

So while T'Pring was fully in control when she manipulated Spock, it is not out of bounds for her to really loose control and get into the 'Wild Thing' when things got close and personal ;).

Also, Peter David did at least use similar logic with Selar, with the Vulcan doc's ponn far delayed due to Psychic Shock after the death of her mate during mating and melding... So we can forgive him that too.

And this episode at least has an external reason that quite magically begins the process... :D

So while it is, unarguably a cheap marketing ploy, it is not entirely out of bounds or outside of 'Trek' reasoning which has been shown to do almost anything in the past...

At the end of the day, its about as neutral as you can get, not directly contradicting any Trek Canon, while simaltaneously giving extra ammunition to the Voyager, Peter David and Enterprise critics... As they say, you cant please all of the people all of the time... So if your not pleased, turn off the TV and read a book or something...

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Originally posted by erhershman
Either you or this site is getting the episodes mixed up. This is "Bounty," being shown in two weeks, not "The Expanse." (the latter is the season finale.)

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You are correct, sir! (post edited.) As for not watching the ep: I haven't felt the need to see a season 2 ep so far, and I don't think that's going to change. Of course, your mileage may vary. :)

Without starting another new vs. old thread, I guess what really irks me is the reliance on "cheap marketing ploys" (thanks, Dan) to sell a Trek episode. I realize it's all about the ratings, but I'd like to have seen Trek take the high road. "Burning desire to mate" indeed.

Like I said - I just gotta vent.

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Originally posted by Mijoro
Of course, your mileage may vary. :)

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It does indeed. I've seen every single ENT episode so far (I don't watch the reruns though.)

Which tells you I absolutely hate Enterprise, right?:D

(shrug) I f they do it right, why not?

Our campaign's always had both sexes go through ponn far -- though I always kinda figured the mating fever thing was more a build up due to the repressed emotions thing; creates a hormonal imbalance as they keep their drives bottled up then POP they bust out and gotta **** something. (Personally, I figured the ponn far cycle could vary in length due to your self-control & maybe there might be variation due to the hormonal patterns of the particular gender...)

But that's just me...

It isn't only males. Read the Vulcan's Heart book series.

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Originally posted by qerlin
(shrug) I f they do it right, why not?

Our campaign's always had both sexes go through ponn far -- though I always kinda figured the mating fever thing was more a build up due to the repressed emotions thing; creates a hormonal imbalance as they keep their drives bottled up then POP they bust out and gotta **** something. (Personally, I figured the ponn far cycle could vary in length due to your self-control & maybe there might be variation due to the hormonal patterns of the particular gender...)

But that's just me...

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I agree. And anyway, even if they have said in a movie or episode somewhere that it was only Vulcan males, I treat all Trek episodes and movies, from any of the five series, as having the following disclaimer before each episode.

ALL INFORMATION IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

It works wonders for getting over canon "changes" (and I use that word in its broadest possible sense, since I don't consider any of Trek to be truly set in stone.)

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Originally posted by Rayaru
It's isn't only Vulcan males, read the Vulcan's Heart book series.

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I didn't think it was. But regardless of whether it's males or both males and females, it is still kind of a cheap marketing trick. Although IMO T'pol is a cheap marketing trick in and of herself, even when not experiencing a Vulcan sex drive. I think it was Berman who commented in an interview, when asked whether T'pol would experience ponn farr, said that they would do that "if they needed to boost ratings." Which, to met, translates as "it's only a matter of time." And what do you know? :rolleyes:

I'll be fine with the episode so long as she keeps her clothes on. Her "silhouette undressing" thing in "Carbon Creek" was just stupid, and I won't rehash what everyone has already said about the decon scene in "Broken Bow."

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Originally posted by Dan Gurden
So if your not pleased, turn off the TV and read a book or something...

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True enough.

So long as it's not a Star Trek book... those are notorious for being inconsistent with the show. In a TNG novel, Tasha's homeworld was a colony called New Paris.
:p

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Originally posted by Liz Not Beth
Burning Desire To Mate?!

What's wrong with that??!!??!! :confused:

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Yeah, but see...Vulcan do it every seven year, not every seven seconds... :D

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Truly.


First "been feeling like a Vulcan myself, lately" of Two

Maybe I have it wrong, but I remember Savok saying it was something that affected Vulcan males in Star Trek III.

T'pol in heat?! A cheap marketing ploy!? How dare they?!!
Pass the popcorn and pull up a seat. This is gonna be some good viewing. Of course, you know they won't carry it as far as we'd like to see it go. And I know that amongst the typical males in this room (and I am a very typical male when it comes to hot chicks on TV) that we would just love to see T'pol get down and dirty.

Folks, I hate to break it to us, but as of this current coordinate in the space-time continuum, we are not the enlightened beings that we would like to think we are. Face it, guys, we can harp all we want to ourselves and to others about "cheap marketing ploys" to make ourselves sound more enlightened, especially to overly sensitive feminazi's who would love nothing better than to see T'pol or any of the other "hot Trek babes" run around looking like mallrat alterna-chicks. (You know, loose, extremely baggy clothing, the smell of Pechuli oil.....YECHHHHHH!, etc.)

I will agree that it does sound like a cheap marketing ploy...but I say: "BRING IT ON!!!!!!" Why? Cause sensuality has been at the core of Star Trek since TOS! (Takes a breath as he prepares the case yet again.:rolleyes: ) Chicks in tin-foil bikinis, and gogo boots, or wearing miniskirts that barely cover their panties, and even on occasion, frontal cleavage. (They were not allowed to show bare sides of the breast at the time.) And who was always gettin' the action? Jimmie T. ...at least 95% of the time.

Now, as it turns out...a couple of guys on the NX-01's crew maybe gettin' some action from Vulcan's hottest and finest, and all of the sudden it's a cheap marketing ploy?! Puh-huh-huh-lease! All the guys in here know that (putting ourselves in a fictitious situation of course) if one of us and T'pol were stranded on an alien world with absolutely NO HOPE of rescue from anyone, we would be going for more than just the logically casual affair. Pon Farr, Vulcan Logic, and enlightenment be DAMNED!

Oh, and by the way...the story about Archer being hunted down by Klingons is intriguing too.

Let's put this in another perspective....anyone here watch the show JAG? (Show of hands? Anyone? Ok, there's some of you in here._) I know that Jolene Blalock was on that show too, although I've never seen her in any episode I've watched. But, the case being.....they still have an extremely HOT HOT HOT chick in the form of Mac (played by the oh so delectible Catherine Bell). And they have had episodes where Harm was deluding himself that Mac was making come on's to him left and right. Cheap marketing ploy? Probably. Did it work? Yes!

Let's put this another way. Let's assume for a moment that T'pol were on the show, but with a totally different outfit...say....the traditional Vulcan robes, wearing them for a longer duration throughout the series. How long do you think it will be before the male audience of Trek starts saying: "Damn! Let's see that gorgeous body! I know there's one under there!" Sure, we can all watch the intelligent story, try to focus on Trek's moral story,
question the nature of the Universe, watch them wipeout Klingons around Uranus and all that....but in the end, we would be sitting there, going, "Pleaasseeee.....show me that gorgeous hard body?" And then---BAM! Then, the producers decide that she should stay in the catsuit....hey, guess what?! All us little fanboys are pleased.

Some feminazis (not feminists...feminists are cool :D ) like to turn around and bitch about how women are still considered second class citizens. They completely overlook the fact that the characters like T'pol, and Seven of Nine are highly intelligent women, capable of taking action, making command decisions, and kicking arse when the calling falls to them to do so. (Which was quite frequently.) And even sometimes turn around and rescue the guys. Hey, how's that for progress?! And actually, progress has been progressing since wwaaaayyyyyy long before the 80's.

Let's take another angle here: WONDER WOMAN! Growlllll!

Ok...WW was invented by Dr. William Mouldon Marsden (sp?_). Now Wondie kicked arse, although she was constantly put in bondage...but no one ever kept her down forever. (Dr. Marsden's fetish I guess.)

Anyhoo...here are the two views I've seen of Wonder Woman from the chick side of the fence.

Feminist----- I think she's great. She's intelligent and wise, has great strength and great beauty, and she kicks arse. She brings a message of peace to the troubled world of Man.

Feminazi-----Oh, puhlease! Wonder Woman, PUT SOME CLOTHES ON!

Well....at least one thing that can be said about the current babes of Trek....they are wearing clothes.

Sorry, was I ranting again?

To watch Trek, and not have sexual tension between a couple of crewmates....or three...or four....would be kinda boring to me.
Perhaps I am the Anti-Roddenberry, but when I was watching Trek as a kid....I didn't give two damns who created the show. I didn't give three damns if the show had a moral message. All I knew was...I LIKED THE SHOW. It had a good story, cool visual effects, nifty space battles, cool things like the shuttlecraft, communicators, tricorders and phasers, and hot chicks in miniskirts and tin-foil bikinis. (That's quite a bit for a six year old watching reruns at the time to consider.) I started understanding the stories and other considerations only slightly later. Now that I am twenty eight years older, and ten years wiser, ( :D ) I find that despite the fact I enjoy the stories and the philosophical underpinnings of Trek, it is still those basic things about it that I loved as a kid that I still love today!

Long Live Trek! May it's characters become wiser, it's ships get faster, its phasers become planetkillers, and its chicks get HOTTER! :D

Respectfully, Irreverently, and with just a touch of Oregano,
General Chang

I have never complained about the Lady's of Trek, up until Ent. everything was done with taste and a certain amount of grace. Why? Because they were a character in the story of the ep. But, Ent has taken it too far and is now catering to the lowest common denominator to get ratings. I don't remember said girl in "tin foil" bikini being smeared with KY jelly! Although it is interesting to think about, but in the end it is not why I watch trek. If this type of scene is so important to the other viewers out there, might I suggest the Playboy Channel, and let Trek try and get back to the way it was.

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Originally posted by General Chang
And I know that amongst the typical males in this room (and I am a very typical male when it comes to hot chicks on TV) that we would just love to see T'pol get down and dirty.

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Speak for yourself, Chang.
There's free internet porn for down and dirty if that's what you want. But it's not why I watch Trek.

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Folks, I hate to break it to us, but as of this current coordinate in the space-time continuum, we are not the enlightened beings that we would like to think we are.

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This has nothing to do with being "enlightened" and everything to do with viewer's expectations. When I watch Trek I expect to see some sci-fi, that at least tries to be more than just eye-candy and on rare occasions sparks something like an intelligent thought in me.

I don't want the only strong female character on the ship to be reduced to a sex-hungry bimbo. Again I refer you to internet porn if that's what you're after.

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Cause sensuality has been at the core of Star Trek since TOS!

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In one word: No.

It's been at the core of Star Trek IN TOS. The other series had a different set of priorities.

And also, I respectfully object to your krass generalizations about all male Trek fans or male viewers in general.
Do I mind attractive female characters in a show? No.
But that doesn't mean that I turn into a drooling mass of hormones whenever I see some cleavage or a woman in a mini-skirt. Frankly I find this idea offfensive. Both from the producers who seem to make that assumption and from you for insinuating this. It is sexism of the highest order.

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Now that I am twenty eight years older, and ten years wiser, ( :D ) I find that despite the fact I enjoy the stories and the philosophical underpinnings of Trek, it is still those basic things about it that I loved as a kid that I still love today!

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That may be, but your feelings of nostalgia have nothing to do with the declining quality of the franchise.

Touche, Joe. Touche:D

However, I did not say that I wanted internet porn. I'm not that crazy. Nor do I want pornography in Star Trek.

As for sexism...hmm....well....I never did claim to be politically correct. :)

Now, allow me to make an argument for the poor exploited males on the show. An example...when Trip and Malcolm were made to parade about in their space skivvies on Risa. Or anytime that a scene is shown with T'pol and perhaps one or two of the male crew in their space skivvies in the decontamination room....no one complains about the male characters. Hmmm....double standard? Yes.

Anyway...even if all the Trek ladies were in standard uniforms, and not the customized uniforms made for T'pol and Seven...and to some degree Troi...I would still enjoy Star Trek.

To clarify, I should have said that "hot chicks" on Star Trek was a bonus...not a prerequisite for my enjoyment.

But allow me to ask....what else can be done to improve the franchise? Considering that it has been irreparably placed in the hands of the vilefied B&B team. I know that the fans speak out vehemently about the quality (or lack thereof) of current Trek. If the fans could petition to have Paramount/Viacom get rid of Brannon and Braga, and turn the series over to someone the fans feel is more qualified to carry on the legacy, then do so. I'm not really certain that it is possible, but it may be worth an effort.
Then again, perhaps Paramount would be receptive to letting the fans take over the show. But, on top of that, there could be a problem. (See my little parody thread in "Who would you like to see write/direct the next Trek film?")

Anyhoo, Joe, thank you for your intelligent rebuttals.

I am sure to catch fire for my statements...I wrote what I wrote in full recognition of that. At least, we are civil about it, my friend.:D

Respectfully,
General Chang

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Originally posted by General Chang
Now, allow me to make an argument for the poor exploited males on the show. An example...when Trip and Malcolm were made to parade about in their space skivvies on Risa. Or anytime that a scene is shown with T'pol and perhaps one or two of the male crew in their space skivvies in the decontamination room....no one complains about the male characters. Hmmm....double standard? Yes.

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Speaking for myself, I don't feel as if a couple of guys running around in their skivvies is trying to appeal to some base instinct in me. It's pointless and occasionally silly, but it doesn't come across as a subtle insult to my intelligence to me.

But when T'Pol has to sweat in her tight underwear and speak in a sultry voice, I somehow feel as if the writers are just using the show as an excuse to show us some skin.
And that I find is a waste of a perfectly good story background and simply quite... irritating.

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Anyway...even if all the Trek ladies were in standard uniforms, and not the customized uniforms made for T'pol and Seven...and to some degree Troi...I would still enjoy Star Trek.

To clarify, I should have said that "hot chicks" on Star Trek was a bonus...not a prerequisite for my enjoyment.

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Somebody should tell B&B that, it seems. And while I agree that attractive women are a bonus to a series, I don't need to be hit over the head with their attractivity to notice, especially when it seems that it has become the only note-worthy aspect of said show.

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But allow me to ask....what else can be done to improve the franchise?

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I feel that the series needs to shake off that feeling of ennui and tired repetition. I'm not so sure if that means we need a couple of years with no Trek, or even radically different Trek. I think there's still life in the franchise, but it seems to me that it's slowly being squeezed out by people who don't seem to have a clear idea of what they want to do with it.

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But when T'Pol has to sweat in her tight underwear and speak in a sultry voice, I somehow feel as if the writers are just using the show as an excuse to show us some skin.

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LOL! Or as some would see it...the writers are using the skin as an excuse to give us a show. :D

Respectfully,
General Chang