Do you like time travel as long as it's not Trek? What time travel entertainment do you like? I like time travel in Trek, and I like Back to the Future. I haven't seen much of Doctor Who.
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Do you like time travel as long as it's not Trek? What time travel entertainment do you like? I like time travel in Trek, and I like Back to the Future. I haven't seen much of Doctor Who.
DS9 for the reasons I quoted in your thread on Star Trek forum.Quote:
Originally posted by Cochrane
Do you like time travel as long as it's not Trek? What time travel entertainment do you like? I like time travel in Trek, and I like Back to the Future. I haven't seen much of Doctor Who.
Back to the Future had some flaws in the plot (which if anyone is interested in I'll be happy to post - although I don't wish to sound anally retentive).
Doctor Who - your missing out on a classic time travel series.
But you forgot:
BILL AND TED!
:D
I voted other.
I mean Trek makes a good episode but time continuity almost never works out right.
BttF while better then Trek time ways still had problems.
I seem to remember the TimeCop series being fairly good.
There is only one movie (or tv show for that matter) that handled time travel in a way I enjoyed -- 12 Monkeys. Main reason there is that it is possible to even see the time travel as hallucination.
Nope, hate most time travel material, especially time travel into the past.
Lets see...
At what point did Marty's parents realize that their son was Calvin Klein?
Was there another Marty in Switzerland when the main Marty was in the dark 1985?
Why didn't Doc in 1885 remember that he had dressed Marty in 1955?
Why couldn't Doc write a time capsule letter in 1885 to be delivered in 1985?
What did George think when Star Wars and Star Trek introduced Darth Vader and the Planet Vulcan?
How closely did "A Match Made in Space" follow the true story?
I'm sure I've thought of others in the past. Go ahead and post yours.
Why didn't Doc in 1885 remember the 1955 events of Part 2?
I guess I should have included Time Trax and Seven Days in the poll.
I think Seven Days handles time travel the best, mainly due to there aren't as many paradoxes created by going back a week ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Cochrane
I guess I should have included Seven Days in the poll.
The Back to the Future trilogy is my favourite movie about time travel - mainly because it's so light hearted and fun (though I like the 3rd one a little less), and thus uses any possibilities time travel offers to have fun. Of course, there are many paradoxes in it - but I don't think it's possible to do a time travel story without them. It's a bit like a James Bond movie where any random car doesn't have the key on the ignition and the tank full :D
As for errors in BttF, here are some my twisted mind thought of :
How the hell did the McFly family stay in the same town during 130 years??? I think the probabilities of such an case in the States are around 0.001% (okay, that one is a plot contrivance more than an error, but I think it's the one I thought at first about).
Why did 2015 not change when Biff returned from the past ? When Marty returned in 1985 the first time, all changes done in the past had already affected the present.
Why does Marty's great-great-whatever mother look like his mother (same actress...) while they are the ancestors of his father ? (unless their families are somehow connected...)
And yes, I know few of these must be present on the usual "BttF plot errors list" :D
My vote went to Doctor Who beacuse they never had a problem with changing things.
I mean, the Doctor has IIRC stopped the Daleks from being created at least twice, in completely different circumstances.
So, in the Doctor Who world, the past is a very flexable thing, much like our perception of the future.
Back to the future is a close second. I once tried to chart out exactly what was going on there, and how many alternate timelines there are.
Take this for an example: The Marty McFly who visited the 1950s in the first movie had the unsuccessful father bullied by Bif all his life. But, when he returns home he sees himself go back in time fleeing the terrorists. But that Marty McFly was different, and grew up with a successful father. So what happened to him?
For the same reason Marty didn't remember his father's successful career. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Cochrane
Why didn't Doc in 1885 remember the 1955 events of Part 2?
Seriously, because there were several "alternate" versions of everyone. The Doc Marty dealt with in 1955 to go back to 1885 was not the same Doc who arrived in 1885, though he might later become him.
If that makes any sense at all.
1) unknow, but they probably did.Quote:
Originally posted by Cochrane
Lets see...
At what point did Marty's parents realize that their son was Calvin Klein?
Was there another Marty in Switzerland when the main Marty was in the dark 1985?
Why didn't Doc in 1885 remember that he had dressed Marty in 1955?
Why couldn't Doc write a time capsule letter in 1885 to be delivered in 1985?
What did George think when Star Wars and Star Trek introduced Darth Vader and the Planet Vulcan?
How closely did "A Match Made in Space" follow the true story?
I'm sure I've thought of others in the past. Go ahead and post yours.
2) yes. The Marty who grew up in that world was sent to Switzerland, just like the Marty who grew up with a successful father went off in the time machine to ... when exactly?
3) see my above comments about Doc and Marty.
4) Could have, but judged it too difficult for some reason. Trying to contact himself before he had the accident could have ... unforseen results. Better to contact someone who you know has the knowedge to fix the machine and who can be trusted to rescue Marty from 1955. Since Doc now believes Time Travel to be dangerous, the fewest number of time trips is to just give Marty the time machine to go back to 1985 with.
5) I suspect that by the time Star Trek and later Star Wars came around, George McFly did not remember the events of that night very clearly, and probably believed he had dreamed them. Thus, he believed he subconsciously added the word "Vulcan" to his dream sometime after he had heard about Star Trek.
6) not very, but it's impossable to know.
I don't know about that. There's a house in Cherry Valley, New York that one of my father's cousins lives in. They are at least the third generation at that address. My grandfather grew up there and he would have been 101 this year.Quote:
Originally posted by C5
How the hell did the McFly family stay in the same town during 130 years???
My Grandfather moved away because he disliked his father. Most of his siblings remained in the immediate area.
One of my aunts inherited her father's house. Her brother built a house across the street. Two of her sisters moved to the next town, but they live across the street from each other.
So, I don't find it very improbable that George McFly bought a home in the town he grew up in, as his father had before him and his grandfather before that.
Mr. Social: Where is the non travelling Frank when the future Frank travels back?
C5: I think there are plenty of families that stay in one place for that long, or leave and come back. My grandparents on both sides moved to northern California in the 40's and here I am within 100 miles of where they moved to in 2003, after living away for a decade. I think there are plenty of families in the east that are still in the same place as in colonial times, including some distant relatives of mine in the south. I can see moving back east a ways or something for employment, but there wasn't much more west to migrate to. And when you consider the Tannens, Stricklands, and Wilsons sticking around too, it does seem strange.
Why was George goofy again in 2015?
I agree about Maggie and Lorraine both being played by Lea Thompson. That's... wierd. And really Jamus shouldn't look so much like Marty Jr ind his sister either, they should have inherited more traits from their other ancestors, maybe Jennifer's daughter should have looked like Jennifer.
Why didn't 2015 Jennifer remember being in 2015 before?
Why didn't 2015 Marty seem to remember anything?
When did Mad Dog reproduce?
When was Griff's father born?
When Doc said he had already been to the future, did he mean in the train? Does that explain Clara being able to have children at her age?
Where did the Brown family go in the train at the end? Did Marty get to have any more fun? Will there be a new movie in 2015? Maybe a remake? What would Part 4 have been about? Do I remember correctly that they had an idea for it? Just what happened on the cartoon? I saw part of it once, but it was very stupid and wierd and I didn't recognize anyone or understand when they were or what was going on.
I should have included Quantum Leap in the poll too.
Is "A match made in Space" simply all of the events of the entire trilogy?
Maybe by 2015 the McFlys, Tannens, Stricklands and/ or Wilsons should have moved to Alaska, Yukon, Hawaii, or Siberia. Maybe Washington or Oregon.
What were the experiences of the Marty, whose life was affected by his other self in 1955, when he himself went to 1955? Was he surprised by how different his father was? Was he less surprised about how his mother was?
What did the 1985 Doc who had met Marty in 1955 say to his 1985 Marty? Any thing different? How did Marty and Doc's friendship begin when Doc hadn't met before, and when he had?
C5: Were you aware of the deleted scene on the DVD of Part 2 where Biff fades out after returning to 2015? It is explained that Lorraine shot him at some point.
Well my family has been in Marion,Ohio since 1871 when my grandfather was born here.Not so far fetched to me.:)Quote:
Originally posted by C5
As for errors in BttF, here are some my twisted mind thought of :
How the hell did the McFly family stay in the same town during 130 years??? I think the probabilities of such an case in the States are around 0.001% (okay, that one is a plot contrivance more than an error, but I think it's the one I thought at first about).
Twelve Monkeys. Told you the way it ended over and over again, showed it over and over, but made you hope it wouldn't happen.
I guess I could have included Groundhog Day as well.
In Superman, wouldn't part of him have occupied the same space as part of him right before and right after at the same time?
Back to the future: Did Marty's altered parents tell him anything about 1955 before he was seen leaving by himself?
did 85 Doc who had met Marty in 55 pack the extra plutonium?
Where did the Marty, who had been friends with the Doc who had met him before, go after he himself went back to 55?
Does George McFly equal George Lucas?
Was Lorraine Griff's grandmother?
Did the main characters keep time travel a secret from the public after 1985?
Okay, so apparently it's not that as strange as I though for families in the US to remain in the same place for 130 years. Though it's true we are talking about at least two families (McFly and Tannen) here.
Cochrane : I was unaware of such a scene (but I saw it was written that way in the novel). Reminds me I should buy the DvD sometime ;)
How come the McFly own the same home with George being a successful author as with George being a overexploited worker ?
Why does the matchbox instantly changes when the Almanach is destroyed and the photograph with Doc's tombstone when Mad Dog is taken down, while Marty's photo took a full week to be erased ?
BTW, I saw a lot of episodes of the cartoon. Most of them were pretty average (if not downright bad), but a few were just as fun as the movie (like when Doc mistakenly destroy the Dinosaurs asteroid and discovers a world where the dinos are the dominant species - with one of them looking very much like Biff, or when they discover Robin Hood being an ancestor of Marty). But they don't explain much about the movies.
Shouldn't the time machine emerge somewhere else along Earth's orbit or something?
Why did Marty look familiar to Lorraine's mother? More evidence of inbreeding? :eek:
Did Doc ever stop time travelling? When did he die?
Where do Michael J Fox movies come up with names like Biff and Boof?
Why does the time machine always disappear right when it's about to run into something?
Why didn't 1885 Doc in the saloon just say cars instead of automobiles?
Why didn't 1885 Doc in the saloon say people run for exercise?
Yes to the first, anyway. It was quite obvious.Quote:
Originally posted by Cochrane
When Doc said he had already been to the future, did he mean in the train? Does that explain Clara being able to have children at her age?
Since Doc had gotten a "hover-conversion" for the Delorean in the future, and had a hover conversion for the train, it seems obvious that he took the train to the future.
I liked Quantum Leap, too. My only problem with it was why Al could remember things as they were before.
I mean, in one episode Sam is saving a witness who is going to get killed. But instead of just saving her, he also tells her that she should go to law school because she can become anything she wants to be.
Back in the "Present", Al has been defending the Project's funding before a Senate Committee. It seems clear that the project is doomed. But, as Sam "leaps out", the Chairman of the comittee is replaced by a woman who looks quite a lot like the woman Sam saved, and she renews their funding.
Thing is, Al saw it happen, and the shocked look on his face said he noticed it happen.
That aside, Quatum Leap rocked. :)
I just rewatched Superman (Sci-Fi marathon), and the problems/questions are endless.Quote:
Originally posted by Cochrane
In Superman, wouldn't part of him have occupied the same space as part of him right before and right after at the same time?
Turning the Earth backwards does nothing to the passage of time. Now, I used to argue that the Earth turning backwards was an effect, not a cause, but then why does Supes fly the other way to get time going in the right direction again?
It would be SO much better if he just went FTL and traveled back in time.
In the first time through, Lois sits in her stalled car when a tremor hits, the road splits open, her car falls in, a landslide starts burying her, and the crack starts crushing the car as it closes.
In the second time through, Lois sits in her stalled car when Superman comes up and starts a conversation. Then Jimmy Olsen runs up.
What happened to the tremor? The car-swallowing crack? And where the hell was Jimmy the first time?
Because in both cases it's the house he bought right after he got married.Quote:
Originally posted by C5
How come the McFly own the same home with George being a successful author as with George being a overexploited worker ?
Because Marty was only becoming improbable. He had interfered with his own existance, but not negated it. But no one wanted Doc dead except Mad Dog, so with Mad Dog gone Doc lives.Quote:
Why does the matchbox instantly changes when the Almanach is destroyed and the photograph with Doc's tombstone when Mad Dog is taken down, while Marty's photo took a full week to be erased ?
Not sure about the almanac. #2 is not remembered clearly.
Because Lorraine's mother is Marty's grandmother. He looks familiar because he looks like his mom (who is sitting right next to him at the time). It's supposed to be funny because Grandma asks if she knows Marty's mother.Quote:
Originally posted by Cochrane
Why did Marty look familiar to Lorraine's mother? More evidence of inbreeding? :eek:
I voted for Back to the Future just because I had loved that series so much when I was a kid.
Here's one that's been bugging me lately. In the original "Terminator", John Conner from the future sends his friend back in time to protect his mother. The friend (whose name I can't recall) ends up impregnating Sarah Conner and becoming John's father. Wouldn't this have to mean that John would have to be a totally different person than he was in the original timeline? His genetics would be different and since Sarah now knew that she had to train him to be a warrior, everything that he knew would be different. He is a totally different person, with the only similarity the name. So why don't the humans have much more success against the machines in the future?
So to Lorraine's mother, Lorraine resembles Jamus from 1885? Maybe George's father looks like Marty and Jamus?
No. Lorraine does not have a mustache.Quote:
Originally posted by Cochrane
So to Lorraine's mother, Lorraine resembles Jamus from 1885? Maybe George's father looks like Marty and Jamus?
:p
PS
I'm no expert in nameology (guess THAT film reference), but wasn't his name "Shamus"? Or is that how the Irish would actually spell it?
Seamus is the proper spelling. :)Quote:
Originally posted by whiteknight
I'm no expert in nameology (guess THAT film reference), but wasn't his name "Shamus"? Or is that how the Irish would actually spell it?
I guess that makes sense. I've seen "Sean = Shawn" plenty of times that I should have known.
I've heard this sort of thing called a paradox loop: the time travel can't happen unless things unfold properly in the future -- and the time travel is essential to that unfolding, because the traveller does something in the past that makes things unfold the way they did.Quote:
Originally posted by whiteknight
Here's one that's been bugging me lately. In the original "Terminator", John Conner from the future sends his friend back in time to protect his mother. The friend (whose name I can't recall) ends up impregnating Sarah Conner and becoming John's father. Wouldn't this have to mean that John would have to be a totally different person than he was in the original timeline? His genetics would be different and since Sarah now knew that she had to train him to be a warrior, everything that he knew would be different. He is a totally different person, with the only similarity the name. So why don't the humans have much more success against the machines in the future?
Put another way, the future from which Reese started his journey was the future that occurred because he made the journey.
Time travel makes the head hurt. We're probably very lucky we haven't actually figured out how to do it -- assuming it's even possible. I suspect that if it is, we will have to come up with new definitions for "impossible".
So basically we would have to assume that the future is already written? Yuck. That's one thing I didn't like about T3, how John was locked into his fate no matter what. That would drive me nuts if I knew for absolute certainty the horrors the future would hold and that I could do nothing about it.
Well I think I've gone off topic far enough. Sorry. :o
Actually, what's interesting to not is that there are many different theories about time travel and causal paradoxes.
The first main one, mentioned above, is the "predestination theory" : the time travel had to take place for the future to unfold. In this theory, the "grandfather paradox" can't happen : if you try to shoot your grandfather before he met your grandmother, the result are likely that either he'll survive and happen to meet your grandmother thanks to that, or that you'll learn that the guy you killed wasn't actually your grandfather.
The second main time travel theory is that the past can be changed by any action you do and instantly affect your future. Here however two theories differ - either the time traveler is also affected by the change in time (like in BttF), or he's somehow protected from the changes in the timeline (like in most Star Trek time travel episodes) or maybe actually sent to a different universe. Of course, should the time traveller be erased by his own actions, we are now faced by the grandfather paradox - if he didn't exist, he could never have travelled back in time to change his past, so he exists, so he travels back in time to change his past, etc...
That's why I usually like the "past changes affect the future but the time traveller is protected from any changes" theory better - it can explain most time travels stories (well, except BttF, of course) and is relatively paradox proof (no grandfather paradox).
BTW, I once read a rationalisation of this theory in a Poul Anderson novel.
And of course, there's the last theory, often used in less complex stories (and sometimes in Star Trek too) : No matter what the time traveler does, the timeline won't be affected and everything will be identical once he returns to the present - the only trouble he'll face being escaping the T Rex, the angry peasants mob or the nazi soldiers...