Chaplains in Starfleet?

[LCM]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I said the Andorians might start their own sects because the True Church is not now polygamous, although in a ficticious universe that could change.</font>

Respectfully... I think calling LDS the "True Church" is unjustified, and a bit inflammatory to other Christians--most of whom do not acknowledge Mormonism as a genuine branch of Christianity (I say that not as someone offering an opinion on Mormonism's veracity, but as a historian and theologian noting the position of various Christian denominations). While I very much respect your right to your beliefs, I most emphatically don't share them, and certainly do not acknowledge the above statement.

Perhaps, by the same token, I should avoid using the phrase "Holy Mother Church," since it can be misinterpreted as an endorsement of Catholicism as the "One True Way," when I was merely using the phrase in its socio-historical context, and to set a mood.

If you were doing the same with "True Church," I stand corrected.

I apologize to the moderators if I have caused unnecessary strife, but felt this needed to be addressed.

[Cochrane]

Dan, I assume that the Voyage Home writers knew what they were saying in the line you mentioned. I personally took no offence from them doing that, I thought it was rather funny! By the way, I suppose many realize that the Gillian Taylor actress also plays the mom on Seventh Heaven, and that the Will Decker actor plays the dad.

LCM, you have my apologies. I was only using the term True Church to distinguish from the splinters. I should have said The Mainline Church or something. I suppose it is something like the term Holy Mother Church.

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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!

[LCM]

Your clarification is helpful, Cochrane.

We're cool.

[Miymaani]

Now, I have to disagree with the one who said basically, that advanced species must be less 'religious.' Frankly, that's a Judeo-Christian-centric viewpoint: the presumption being, that all religions value absolute belief in a revealed text above personal experience, learning, and open observation... This is not true of Taoists, or Buddhists, modern Pagans, or our pagan ancestors. It's also not true of all Christians.


It may be that Christianity says that incorporeal beings from other worlds are either angels, demons, or deceptions of their Devil, but that doesn't mean that any other religion in the world would feel at all threatened by their existence. In fact, most of them have known about these things for ages. <wink>


Certainly, the kind of 'anti-science' perceptions of religion and spirituality might have a hard time getting by in a Star Trek universe, but the only people saying a given religion must be anti-science are the adherents and doctrinaires of that religion.

Most religions, in fact, don't see any conflict at all. It's again the modern Western viewpoint that labels these things as antitheitcal... Take a peek over at the other board, where I made a prognostication about how a Neopagan practitioner might deal with various 'esper' phenomena in Trek.


As to the issue of chaplains on Starfleet vessels, it might well be that someone of *any* faith willing to take the oaths of confidentiality to be able to be spoken to by the crew, and whip out a very US Army manual on funeral services for Bolian Minarthists and read a ceremony in good faith might be a fine chaplain, whether they be a Buddhist from Earth, a disciple of Kohlinar, or an Andorian Emasha.

The US Army presently does something quite similar.

[spyone]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LCM:
[b] Respectfully... I think calling LDS the "True Church" is unjustified, and a bit inflammatory to other Christians--most of whom do not acknowledge Mormonism as a genuine branch of Christianity (I say that not as someone offering an opinion on Mormonism's veracity, but as a historian and theologian noting the position of various Christian denominations). </font>

Before I read on (to see if there were other replies to this), I took no offense. I assume that the True Church is a division of the Church of the Latter Day Saints, intended to distinguish it from what I called "splinter groups" above.

Basicly, all (or most) religions have a "true church". While I agree it is aomewhat perjorative, it is really intended to show a distance of doctrine. Essentially, it is a way of enforcing a trademark of a kind on the name of your church. When someone else creates a religion whose beliefs are different in a significant way (even though they may derive from yours), and defines themselves as a sect of your religion and uses a very similar name, you will want some way to distinguish your church from theirs. So, you call yourself the "True Slobovian Church", to distinguish yourself from the "Reformed Slobovian Church" and the "Orthodox Slobovian Church".

I guess I took my cue from the capitol letters. Saying "the true church" is a statement of the church's truth, but saying "the True Church" is giving its name.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

[spyone]

bump.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

[Cochrane]

Thou Shalt Not Bump A Three Page Thread!

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Games... The... Final Product. These... are the books... of the Star... Trek RPG. Their five... year license. To explore... strange... new roles. To breathe... new... life into get... togethers. To bold... ly play what no... fan... has played... be... fore!

[Trinity Zeldis]

Star Trek has never ever ever ever ever ever (ad nauseum) denied faith. A list of episodes where faith is paid at least a little lip service if not beint integral to the plot follows:

Corbomite Maneuver: "You have one hour to pray to whatever deities you believe in."

(forgot the name but this is what I call it) Squire of Gothos: "They are better than us, they have souls."

(another name I forget) Nazis v. Zion: 'Nuff said.

Balance of Terror: They were in the ship's chaple for that wedding.

STTMP: V'Ger sought the creator.

STII: Ummm....if you don't see the lip service here, you aren't a Trek fan (that goes for the two of you too, B&B)

STIII: Didn't that admiral admit he didn't go in for Vulcan mysticism?

STV: THEY WENT LOOKING FOR GOD FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!

(forgotten name, but) Skimpy Clothing Episode: Hmmmm, Edo anyone?

And of course there is the ENTIRE DS9 series.

Isn't this enough to say that there could conceivably be some ordanation for religious characters? I know in a game I'm in now, I play a priest. He's an engineer and sees the divine as the Grand Device.

Star Trek doesn't discourage religion, it just doesn't encourage a particular religion going with the Desidarada; "And so make peace with your god, however you may perceive him." Or as lampooned, "And so make peace with your god, be he hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin."


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Sit.
Listen.
Challenge.
Learn.

[JALU3]

Perhaps there is a Chaplain Corps, perhaps there is not. One thing I was thinking was with the advent of Holographic communication, as well as large group meetings using holosuits and holodecks would it not be entirely possible that religious members of any given faith, could connect to services of that faith via the holographic communication? Perhaps some faiths may see those services as valid, perhaps some faiths would not. Just an idea.

And even if there were holocommunication services for those where there is consumption of an item that requires it to be blessed would such an event be do-able? Some faiths may not see such events as valid, others may, I guess YMV dependent on what faith one is talking about.

[Dan Gurden]

Talk about the resurection...

Wow... and a template that I had forgotton all about (Not that I would use it, IMO this role is likely to be a councelor type... Maybe I will keep it again as an optional alternative...)

[Sarge]

Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread when it started! Although, checking the dates, I was deployed to Saudi Arabia with very limited net access at the time.

Another TOS reference to religious beliefs popped up in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" When Apollo commanded the landing party to worship him, Kirk said something like, "We no longer worship many gods. The one is sufficient for us."

Perhaps there is a Chaplain Corps, perhaps there is not. One thing I was thinking was with the advent of Holographic communication, as well as large group meetings using holosuits and holodecks would it not be entirely possible that religious members of any given faith, could connect to services of that faith via the holographic communication? Perhaps some faiths may see those services as valid, perhaps some faiths would not. Just an idea.

And even if there were holocommunication services for those where there is consumption of an item that requires it to be blessed would such an event be do-able? Some faiths may not see such events as valid, others may, I guess YMV dependent on what faith one is talking about.

That's an interesting question; communion by holocomm... My guess is that denominations that see communion as purely symbolic would be fine with that. Those that believe in transubstantiation (the miraculous transformation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ) might question the validity of long distance mass. OTOH, since the ceremony is dependent on a miracle anyway, why can't the miracle take place anywhere in the galaxy whenever and wherever God wills it? I can see the pope convening Vatican 3 to debate that matter and others, such as God's plan of salvation for non-humans, and whether the rapture will only be on Earth or happen simultaneously throughout the universe.

Getting back to the original question, I don't think SF would have any official chaplains. Personnel would be allowed to congregate while off duty and be free to choose religious leaders as they see fit. That seems to fit best with my understanding of Federation policies of tolerance for all cultures.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

I can see the pope convening Vatican 3 to debate that matter and others, such as God's plan of salvation for non-humans, and whether the rapture will only be on Earth or happen simultaneously throughout the universe.

The rapture is an American Protestant thing, not a Catholic one, so it's not the Pope's problem.

Getting back to the original question, I don't think SF would have any official chaplains. Personnel would be allowed to congregate while off duty and be free to choose religious leaders as they see fit. That seems to fit best with my understanding of Federation policies of tolerance for all cultures.

The 'chaplain' position isn't something you'd find on Earth outside of countries with certain religions highly-represented in their personnel (although you could argue the political officer on Soviet ships could count); unlikely cultural parallels aside (*cough*"First Contact"*cough*) I can't see that specific intersection occurring often. The history of space exploration would also influence the religio-cultural expressions toward, uh, portable practice. Catholics, for example, might have personal tabernacles they bring along.

[JALU3]

So there could be clergy of various different faiths, but their faiths have no official place aboard a Starfleet vessel, starbase, or facility? Therefore would there be no non-denomination based area where groups of Starfleeters can hold communal gatherings following that faith's beliefs, i.e. a chapel or sanctuary? Which begs the questions what about whether Hedonists, Vulcan spiritualists, Klingon Kahless worshipers, will they all have to reserve time in the same space? I suspect this maybe the case. Of course they can always hold it in an appropriate space as long as it meets the requirements of that faith. For instance the Hedonists can always have it in a cargo bay full of free flowing tasty things and very large beds. Am I arguing against myself here?

[Sarge]

The rapture is an American Protestant thing, not a Catholic one, so it's not the Pope's problem.

I hadn't heard that before; now I have something new to ask my Catholic friends about. OK, substitute "second coming" for "rapture."

[The Tatterdemalion King]

So there could be clergy of various different faiths, but their faiths have no official place aboard a Starfleet vessel, starbase, or facility?

As clergy? Probably not. But the position and duties of 'clergy' is hardly universal amongst human religious organizations. A Roman Catholic priest (from which the English words we're using to talk about the question in were given their specific meaning) isn't quite the same thing in practice as a rebbe, Aghori ascetic or Folk-Daoist exorcist; their relationship to the 'laity' or other religious officialdom is specific to their religious context. Extending the question of what is the equivalent to 'chaplain' to aliens... well, it's complicated.

Therefore would there be no non-denomination based area where groups of Starfleeters can hold communal gatherings following that faith's beliefs, i.e. a chapel or sanctuary?

The Enterprise had a chapel-like area in 'Balance of Terror.' It might've been displaying symbols at the individuals' request, though.

Which begs the questions what about whether Hedonists, Vulcan spiritualists, Klingon Kahless worshipers, will they all have to reserve time in the same space?

Hedonists, if that's apparently an organized religion, already have the mess hall : P. Vulcans and Klingons have areas in their personal quarters, but both seem to place a lot of value on the pilgrimage outside of daily communal practice (Klingon religion resembles something between a chivalrous code and a mystery cult, the 'priests' appear to be primarily caretakers of sacred sites). The history of religious rites in space exploration (and seafaring) so far leads to me to believe that rites practices in space will be expected to make do with what is there.